Balanced dog training learning resources

[cindergames]

I am hoping to get a doberman this year. This will be our family dog however i am willing to invest time and resources to ensure he is trained as a protection dog to a certain extent.

I am looking into dog training and I am overwhelmed. There is so much information and contradictory information.

I am interested in “balanced” training guides/resources. I have seen too many dogmatic positive reinforcement videos that I am not fully on board with it. I would like to find a great starting point for a comprehensive beginner friendly course/reading material that would explain when/how to use positive reinforcement and when/how to use corrections or negative reinforcement (e.g. timeouts, leash correction, body blocking, firm verbal correction etc).

Any recommendations?

 

[dombo]

@cindergames If you want to get into protection work, find a club now and get involved. It's generally not something people dabble in- it's a lifestyle.

For general puppy education I got a ton out of Michael Ellis' Raising Your Puppy on Leerburg. He covers everything you're asking about (e.g. corrections should only be a thing for very serious situations like puppy running in front of a car. Otherwise it's about managing so your pup only does the right things and doesn't have opportunities to practice what you deem is wrong since they have no clue what you want or what is wrong or right).

 

[cindergames]

@dombo does it apply for family protection dogs?

I want to have a dog that would protect my missus if she goes for a run with the dog and situation calls for it. Or if someone breaks in the house

 

[dombo]

@cindergames If you want a dog that is actually trained in controlled aggression, there is an immense amount of training and expense involved. Most people are fine with a large dog that can bark on command, and that will deter less committed criminals (people who are intent on doing harm will just stab/shoot/poison the dog). A dog that goes after someone with no training is usually insecure and reactive, not protective as most people interpret it.

 

[kalenebari]

@cindergames The first thing you need to understand is that most good "balanced" trainers will look similar to a lot of those R+ trainers unless you see them with a dog actively wearing a tool. Good "balanced" trainers I would consider would be Michael Ellis, Chad Mackin, Tyler Muto, Jay Jack, Pat Stuart, Ivan Balabanov to start.

For protection work go to a competent protection trainer. Do not do it yourself. Finding a solid Dobie in north America is hard enough. If you don't know what you're doing it's really easy to mess them up, then you're fixing a whole host of other problems.

 

[patersonchristian]

@cindergames Don't get a Doberman if you want a protection dog

 

[childoflight555]

@cindergames I'm gonna let you in on a secret... what is and is not "positive reinforcement only" training is completely subjective... at least when you're going by positive reinforcement as defined by Youtube videos rather than professional trainers.

Lots of dog owners who call themselves "positive reinforcement only" still use time-outs, for instance. They just call them "enforced naps" instead. On the very extreme end, if you're totally over-the-top about it, I've seen people arguing that ending a training session can be an aversive, because you're removing something the dog wants: your attention! And body-blocking, for instance, doesn't have to be used for intimidation; if your dog is going for another dog, it can be a necessary safety tool in the moment to break their line of sight and get focus back on you. It's all contextual.

ESPECIALLY if you want a protection dog -- do not under any circumstances rely on Youtube. Those are highly edited videos by dog influencers showing only the "good" takes, not the 99 "bad" takes it took to get their puppy to cooperate. Find a trainer in your area, and schedule a preliminary session before you get your dog to sit down and talk with them about their training philosophy. You'll know whether or not you vibe.

 

[sarahtoo]

@cindergames Have a look at operant conditioning and see how and why its being applied in the stuff your watching.

Very basically there is positive and negative reinforcment, they are both used to make a behaviour more likey in the future. Positive and negative punishments make a behaviour less likey in the future.

Usually you start with the least aversive methods (positive reinforcment) to teach a new command/behaviour then once they know it well you can add the others if needed to show following commands is not optional.

Shield K9s book explains it pretty well in no nonsense terms. Haz's methods can be a little tough for some owners but he really knows his stuff. I think his dogs speak for themselves when you see how well trained they are.

 

[svitlana78]

@cindergames Two books I use: the art of raising a puppy by the monks of new skete and how to raise a perfect dog by cesar millan- gentle but believe in appropriate correction

 

[skyblue77]

@svitlana78 Two outdated books by people who should never be allowed to touch dogs.

 

[kalenebari]

@skyblue77 I would argue that Marc Goldberg is actually a phenomenal resource. The thing about good dog trainers is they update their knowledge and expand their skill as they evolve. The newer version of the Monk's book has been updated.

If you have any questions on how Marc or the Monks train I highly suggest reaching out to them and learning a little more.

I can't speak to CM because after being appalled by what he and his producers did in the name of his TV show I feel there is a massive character flaw there I could not get behind even if he has evolved his methods.

 

[svitlana78]

@skyblue77 Tell me more. I’m genuinely interested. Used them for my last two dogs with great results. Lost one a month ago and am getting a puppy in two and a half months so would love to know. It’s been 12 years since I used them so I’m open to something new was just using what worked before.

 

[skyblue77]

@svitlana78 Both “trainers” are unqualified and support outdated, untrue “leader of the pack” type training methods. The alpha roll that for example that I believe both of those trainers reccomend does nothing except scare or hurt your dog. Balanced training can be great, and im not against that, but those two aren’t anyone i would take dog training advice from.

 

[svitlana78]

@skyblue77 Thanks. The latest editions don’t have any alpha roll in there. Have a great day!