What actually happened when you tried balanced training?

[parmallia]

@lilith_eve I sent you a message! I think my story is beneficial to what you’re looking for

 

[bragar]

@lilith_eve This sub doesn't allow good experiences to be shared about balanced training, so I expect my comment here to be deleted, but I'll share anyway:

I found that skilled balanced training gave me results much faster and much more reliably than only R+. With my first reactive dog, we did worked for months do try to change her feelings about other dogs. Her threshold would go from maybe 80' to 30' and then at some point an off leash dog would get within maybe 10' and her threshold would jump to 100' and we would have to start all over. We did that for years without making any concrete process at all.

R+ is the foundation of balanced training. With balanced training, I would correct my dog for reacting and then resume all the same R+ exercises I had been doing before. My dog was significantly more responsive and her threshold dropped dramatically very quickly and stayed down even when a dog got too close for her comfort level.

I honestly think reacting and having a meltdown is inherently rewarding for the dog. Just like people, having a tantrum, screaming and shouting and completely losing control of our emotions releases brain chemicals that make us feel good. A while back there used to be this idea for people that aggressive activities were good for emotional regulation because they helped get the angry feelings out. But it turns out those activities were actually rewarding feeling angry and made people get angry faster and worse. Same with dogs, when we allow them to express their feelings any way they like and just try to change those feelings, I think we are inadvertantly rewarding the behavior we don't want.

I haven't had problems with a reactive dog since I stopped allowing my dogs to be reactive.

 

[marinde]

@bragar This is something I've thought a lot about. For example, when I'm frustrated with how another person is driving, if I let myself get angry, yell, honk, etc, it just makes those feelings more intense. But if I will myself to keep it together, I feel better/more calm. So sometimes I think about how that might apply in dog training.

However, can I ask: does your dog actually feel better about dogs now? Or is she just kind of keeping it together? Has she seemed more friendly at all toward dogs? That's my main concern with balanced training for reactivity.

 

[bragar]

@marinde She was as friendly or more friendly with dogs once she learned to keep herself under control around them. I never had any of the fallout people warn you about. She was calmer and more confident and our lives were infinitely better. We could go places and do things I had avoided previously so her life was much larger and richer.

 

[marinde]

@bragar That's good to hear. Thanks for sharing.

 

[gusklenke]

@lilith_eve Not entirely what you’re asking as I haven’t worked with a balanced trainer or intentionally gone that route, but I think about this topic more than I’d like, I’ll throw a few thoughts out if it helps! Long threads here already but hey.

First, I’m almost done reading Don’t Shoot the Dog and it’s given me a lot more to think on in relation to these questions. Super well organized book. I recommend.

I think the mod’s post above about balanced training being more effective or showing less fallout with more stable dogs is a good callout.

My people reactive dog is really sensitive to pressure. So for us, I think adding corrections or tools would be really tough for her and take us further from the results we are after.

I would say to not be afraid to learn more about other +R methods in addition to peoples experiences with balanced training as you seek answers for your specific situation.

Ex: we switched from one +R method of a structured greeting with new people (pressure! She got sensitized to the cues and would start to react as these greetings were stressful) to an approach where new people ignore her completely & she eventually gets to go check them out with a muzzle worked a lot better for us.

Best of luck!

 

[lilith_eve]

@gusklenke Thanks!

 

[aservantofthelord]

@lilith_eve Have you consulted a behaviorist? I was also in a situation where training wasn't helping. After reviewing the training I was doing, the VB added two additional meds and upped my dogs fluoxetine dose. Took about a year to dial in the dosages. We can now pass people and most dogs and when he does react I can now redirect. I can also now have visitors with careful management and proper introductions. It's a night and day difference. This dog is fear reactive to people and a frustrated greeter with dogs.

 

[marcoamorales]

@lilith_eve I have Rottweilers that are from working lines. I go to a dog trainer that is a balanced dog trainer. They are phenomenal when they know what they are doing. The owner is a breeder and also breeds Rottweilers. I wouldn't take my dogs anywhere else. They understand working breeds.

 

[michaeldt]

@lilith_eve What happened? It worked. Extremely well. Like it has for eons.

Basic operant conditioning using positive and negative reinforcement is the gold standard of behavior modification for ever. Flat out.

That's not the case because it's ineffective or creates damaged animals.