@lilith_eve Fear reactive dog, adopted at a year old, minimal to no socialization. Reactive on leash to dogs, timid around people but avoids people, no lashing out behavior to people. Worked with about 3-4 trainers total on 2 yrs and she’s work in progress but major improvement. First year and a half of the work was p+ or ff only. Long post with summary of our LIMA progress.
We’ve used force free exclusively (including doing cooperative care for nail clips, avoiding group classes , walks etc) for 9 months. Didn’t get anywhere (nails couldn’t be clipped, walks were a nightmare if we missed 6am - we did train not walking the dog in trainers recommendation and she got worse).
We then tried p+ (going to group trainings behind a visual barrier at first, the worked out way up to being comfortable in the class (including being able to do a rally course with multiple dogs on the floor). For nails, we go to a groomer. So not completely force free but the dog was taken care of (nails clipped), and she was able yo adjust to her environment, flipped out less since she learned to be around dogs and she would be safe. Walks were still a problem since when she reacted (lunging barking) i fell a couple of times (i don’t live in a place i can avoid dogs with change of direction). So I looked into tools. With martingale or a regular collar, she choked herself to the point of coughing (and she would lunge again), she tangles herself trying to get out of a harness (and i fall faster), head halter (usually recommended by r+) was extremely aversive to her despite desensitization (she accepted wearing it but was shut down during the walk and still lunged with it endangering her neck).
Finally found a trainer who trainer the dog i front of them rather than either only using treats or wanting to put an ecollar on day one. We started using the prong collar (i know, i know the bot will plug in here) with continued use of praise and treats. We still manage the environment (walk on less busy times, avoid triggers if we can. But we are woking more on controlled exposure and increasing her safety bubble and teaching her how to cope with stressors (let’s be real, whose life is without stress), instead of trying and failing to avoid triggers. E.g. she focuses on a dog, i say leave it, if she breaks focus she gets a treat and praise. If she doesn’t, she gets a correction (might be a voice correction or leash correction depending on her intensity), we then work on movement (i might do a circle to have her focus back on me or sniffing something on the ground, anything but the dog). She has been able to walk past dogs from other side of the street. Her reactions are much less dramatic and much shorter, and she recovers very quickly (instead of lunging and barking and choking herself long after the dog passes , now she may bark or half heartedly step into the collar and she turns around and keeps walking or sniffing 2 seconds later).
Our p+ work before we went up the LIMA ladder benefited our relationship and trust building a lot and we learned a lot of creative ways of managing the situation. However, there was a limit in progress we made with it.
Also a word of caution about trainers. IMO There are great and not so good trainers in p+ and balanced world. A bad p+ trainer may not get you far but will also won’t damage your relationship with the dog. A bad trainer using tools, can cause damage to your relationship with the dog. I avoid trainers who suggest methods (either end of the spectrum) or tools before even evaluating the dog or using prong or ecollar without proper conditioning , and without spending time to train you on timing , conditioning, rewarding etc.