Warning grumble or “talking” grumble?

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wayofthepromise

New member
Hey y’all. I just found this group… by way of some fb “dog daddy” video (no opinion on that guy, as this is the FIRST time I’ve seen any videos with him in it.), which turned into a YouTube reel rabbit hole… and boom. 2 hours later. Here I am. Long time reddit lurker.. super occasional commenter/poster! On to my… question…

We have a 6 yo intact male German shepherd (from a backyard breeder of sorts. Both her dogs are AKC registered blah blah blah) - his name is Jet.

Jet is VERY much his mommas dog (ME!) and sort of.. tolerates my husband. (Probably bc husband is away from home 3-4 days a week and then home for 2-8 depending on schedule. Airline pilot life. 🥴)

When husband plays with him, loves on him.. even when Jet initiates said interaction, he does this low whiny/grumbley GROWL. Sometimes teeth showing, sometimes not.

I think this is “knock it off, dad!” Husband thinks the same OCCASIONALLY. But more often then not, “he’s just talking, stop worrying!” (I often tell husband - “I don’t care how long we’ve had him since he was 8 weeks old! he’s going to bite you in the dang FACE one of these days…”

I don’t have a video to attach.. but will attempt to illicit it from him and make a video. Husband is currently on a trip. Enroute to Canada.. or Mexico… or the Bahamas… I can’t keep his schedule straight 🤷🏼‍♀️

*Jet has done a month long board and train approx 2 years ago for adverse behaviors (VERY reactive to PEOPLE. Aggression towards PEOPLE. This began after having to board him at the vet for approx 7 days while husbands dad had major brain surgery. He was about 2 when that started!)

Sorry for the long novel. I want to make sure I add everything that I can think of!

Cross posted to r/reactivedogs as well! I’m at a loss here, y’all. 🫣

Edited bc I finally got a video! It a short one, and not much growling, but Jet initiated the interaction


 
@wayofthepromise It sounds like there’s both warning and play here - like when they’re roughhousing and he makes the grumble it’s probably fake aggression. You can tell bc the dog will re-engage when your husband takes a break and there will be other ‘just kidding’ behaviors in between (like sneezing, running past, rolling onto the back for example).

It also sounds like some of these are warning growls (you can tell bc the dog won’t re-engage and give other appeasement behaviors like lip licking whale eye tucked tail stiff face).

With your dogs history of aggression towards people I wouldn’t round anything up to play though unless you’re 100% sure it’s play because when (and I do mean WHEN) the dog bites someone it’s going to put you in a really tough position and may end the dogs life. Also some dogs are not that good at projecting their social intentions and imo those dogs just don’t get to play rough with humans bc it’s not worth it.

Spend your rabbit hole time learning about dog body language so that YOU can tell the difference as the person primarily responsible for the dog. Then you can decide whether this is something with educating your husband on or you just may have to put rules on their interactions until hubby is willing to learn. We have rules like this in our house bc some of our members (children and adults) don’t really want to spend the time learning how to do things safely so they just don’t get to do them. Good luck.
 
@tke129 Thank you!! I’m going to go with WARNING GROWLS most of the time.. not 100% sure ALL the time, as there is sometimes lip licking involved.

Sometimes it is true playing… running by (that is a “game” as well - they chase each other thru the dang house, and play hide and seek of sorts) BUT. It definitely makes me nervous when it happens.

I will definitely be curtailing the things that cause the growling (standing up over him and kissing/hugging him!)

I have been saying to husband “WHEN he bites you in the FACE..” and have been met with “he wouldn’t do that” uh. WHAAAAT. He’s a A DOG. Yes. We’ve had him for 6 years, since he was 8 weeks old, but dogs bite their owners ALLL THE TIIIIIIME.

Can only imagine THAT convo with the FAA flight doc when he has to explain why he had to have sutures in his face. As a nurse, I’d also not have to be the one to rush his butt in to get sutures or iv antibiotics. 🙅🏼‍♀️

The next thing on my list is to get Jet NEUTERED. According to his vet, that is partially to blame for some of his aggressiveness (cryptorchidism!) but idk how much will be.. alleviated NOW. We are def late to the game with that.
 
@wayofthepromise This isn't a training tip per se -- but one thing you might want to do is take your husband's weight and your dog's weight and calculate what percentage of your husband's weight your dog is. That way when you are explaining to him for the millionth time that he is playing harder than the dog can handle you can say "remember the dog is x % of your weight-- stop going ham on him, keep horseplay at pony level, please. etc." And if he says " but look he likes it he's coming back for more" it's "The dog doesn't understand that if you fall on him, he breaks a leg, but you do, I hope."
 
@joyathome Thank you! Anything to get it thru to him works for meeee!

The 2 of them are prob tired of hearing me say “okay. ENOUGH!!” 3 million times before they actually STOP.

It’s like having 5 little kids running under foot and not ONE 40yo husband and ONE 6yo GSD.
 
@wayofthepromise Sounds like a warning, or Jet letting your husband know that he’s uncomfortable. The best way to tell if this is the case is to stop when he growls. A dog that is a vocal player will try to get you to keep playing or giving them affection if you stop. He might also be growling to say he doesn’t like a specific thing your husband is doing and maybe by pausing when he hears that growl, Jet will be able to suggest a different way of playing or interacting that he is more comfortable with. If Jet walks away when your husband stops, he truly was uncomfortable and that growl should be honoured.
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast on that if your husband is over the top of him or enveloping him in a hug, you could expect that's going to get a negative reaction. All the morse office jealous which is possible. all the same, you are in charge. tell him it off. try to do it in an upscale way or like "oh don't be so silly at first, but any bearing of chief or aggression towards your husband should not be tolerated in. On the other hand, he should stop covering him like that
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast He never walks away! He just pauses and reinitiates whatever they were doing. Either way, every time it happens, I take it as a BACK OFF sorta thing.

I’ll mold them into shape eventually. Between the 2 of them… it’s exhausting.

If only I could get them both trained… together… (kidding. Slightly)
 
@wayofthepromise I'd have said combo play and not play but once I read that he was very reactive to people, and had aggression towards people?

I'm leaning towards, he was drilled to not bite people, with a big, "however".

Your husband should stop pushing this dog's buttons. He reminds me of people who want to show off how much all dogs love them. The dog is giving off big signs of, "I don't like this", your husband is ignoring them, and he'll eventually get a bite.

Dogs don't have a big verbal vocabulary, so when you see a dog who is, with his body, saying, "stop that shit", it's super important to listen, especially with the history that your dog has.
 
@wayofthepromise I know several people have made up their minds, but without seeing everything with context, it's fairly difficult to make a call one way or the other.

Some dogs are loud when they play. Some dogs are loud when they're telling someone to back off.

I would never let anyone play with my dog the way I play with him. Does that mean he's going to bite me? Not in a serious way, no. I've had plenty of incidental marks on my hands, but dogs love to play with their mouths because they don't have hands. That's how we play, though. It comes with the territory.

I also wouldn't play with every dog the way I play with mine. There is a certain level of trust involved when you're really the reward to your dog. Much like I wouldn't let him run around with strange dogs, I wouldn't let him play this way with strange people. Neither of these situations affect our personal relationship.

If I were you I'd ignore everyone that thinks they know the answer based on a text post, and post a video showing exactly what's going on.

Cross posted to r/reactivedogs as well! I'm at a loss here, y'all. 🫣
Click to expand...

They're going to tell you to BE your husband.
 
@eve_marie Thank you for taking the time to comment!! You make some really good points! When in full “play” mode (their hide-and-seek game for instance, as silly as it sounds) once Jet finds him, he gets mouthy - not in a BITING way, but in a “I got you” sort of slobbery light teeth on hand kind of way (yes. I’m aware some people are going to take that as he’s BITING.) but you seem to understand that part! That it’s not actually biting.

The growl that I’m talking about is not in that context. Therefore I’m going to take any instances of growling/grumbling in a “back off” kinda way!

What do you mean by “BE” my husband? For as long as I’ve been on Reddit, I still have no clue how to quote chit or tag other people in comments! Teach me the ways!?! 🥴

This afternoon/evening got away from me. Tomorrow morning, I will take a video!

As for the other thread/group, the comments seem to be… the same… I would hope that a group geared towards people who have reactive dogs wouldn’t jump straight to behavioral euthanasia, but some people do (my MOTHER for instance 🫤) and that is their opinion - whether I agree or not! That part is more for the comment under yours!
 
@wayofthepromise By, "BE" your husband, it was a joke because that sub is slightly overzealous when it comes to behavioural euthanasia. Mostly because they don't believe in correcting dogs in any manner.

Take a look through the threads there. BE and medication take precedence over any sort of aversive solution.

Anyway, back to your original question; barking, growling, showing teeth, etc...are all things that require greater context to make an accurate assessment as to your dog's intentions.

As an example, many people think a display of piloerection, or hackles, from a dog indicates aggression. In reality it's simply an indicator of arousal, and you need to interpret the rest of the dog's body language and behaviour to determine what this means in the context of what's happening.

When I play with my dog and he bites my boots for instance, he's also making noises. He's also biting me. He's also a proper working dog that does not play around in most situations. But knowing my dog I also know he's not going to bite me for real.

Look at it this way; you can take your car to a mechanic and describe a weird sound as best you can, but until they take the car for a test drive, they can't make a proper diagnoses. It's all a guessing game before that, unless it's something very obvious.

I'm not saying you won't get good advice based on your post, but I am saying there are people out there that would rather tell you how much they think they know than give you an honest answer.
 
@eve_marie Seconding this comment.

I’m floored that a large number of dog lovers would rather shoot it than put a slip lead on it. I suspect the reason is virtue signalling: if you walk your dog in a slip lead, the other dog cultists will see and judge you. If you have your dog killed for being uncontrollable on the lead, then only you and the vet and vet nurse will see it.

I’m not on the reactive dogs sub, but I am on other dog subs and have noticed that people seriously consider death before the mildest of aversive methods.
 
@eve_marie OH.. My. GOSH. NOOOOOW I get it. Behavioral Euthanasia = B.E. Laaawd. Thank you for painfully spelling it OUT! This is what I get for reading comments when I should be sleeping!

Jokingly, I’m not gonna say I don’t agree with that route for said spouse!

Husbands uh… stubborn stupidity with Jet and thinking that he’s “playing” is gonna end up being Jets equivalent to “Fuck around and find out” - which at this point… my response is gonna be “SEE. DUMBASS?! This is what I was talking about!!”

The board and train facility that we used has a “repeat as needed” policy for the “life of the dog” - which… sounds great, BUT. Once he comes back home, unless we are continuing the training stuff they did with him… doesn’t work! Zero instruction on what to do with him when we GOT HOME. Just “come to the classes” (the main locale was approx 1.5 hours from our house, which, whatever. Jets worth it! But they always seemed to be on nights that I had to work NIGHTS.) sooooo.. We should be looking at some sort of one on one kinda training IN our area.

Thank you again for your time and advice!! It is GREATLY appreciated.
 
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