level 4(?) bite, no warning. Need advice please

[scottwilson]

@alsu yeah, these are all things I'm worried about. I don't know if it's sunk in for my partner that we will likely not be able to go on a vacation again while the dog is alive because we can't have anyone watch the dog. And he won't be safe to go anywhere. And we'll have to be on high alert all the time to keep people safe.

 

[alsu]

@scottwilson It took my partner a little longer to accept it, but eventually we were on the same page with nearly everything. There were some incidents in between that were a bit scary, though. Sorry you’re going through this, lots of good advice on the thread so I wont belabor it, but as someone who kept the dog, I would never fault someone either way on the actual decision.

 

[refei]

@scottwilson 10+ years I’ve had a human reactive dog. Things change but life isn’t over.

 

[briben1976]

@scottwilson As someone with a reactive dog (thankfully one that hasn’t bitten anyone, as of now!) I can totally understand this worry. Having a dog that you can trust other people to handle or be around is very limiting, but there are some ways you can mitigate it.

Take a look and see if there are any reactive-friendly kennels around you! We have some near us, run by people who’re experienced with reactive dogs and know what they to expect from those animals. They also offer a service where they essentially don’t see anyone at all, if that will be the most calm situation! Maybe there’s something like that near you? It’s probably not idea for long stretches, but it might give you the opportunity to take weekend breaks or whatever.

Working with a vet behaviourist is probably the way to go as well; ours was able to work with our pup confidently and then recommend some meds to help us deal with him.

Finally, I’d just try and remember that this isn’t likely to be something you’ve caused. I know I spent a long time feeling guilty that my pup’s reactivity was because of how bad a job I’d done raising him or some big mistake I’d made in how we handled him. But our behaviourist basically told us to take things a bit easier on ourselves; dogs are all different and often it’s just the nature of the particular dog in question. If you’re the kind of doggy-parent who is worried enough about these issues to be seeking professional help you’re probably leaps and bounds above the average dog owner who gets a puppy or rescue and never thinks twice about it. They’re just lucky enough to have a naturally chill dog.

 

[1godspace]

@scottwilson I think a behaviorist could definitely help the dog but also you guys as owners. A lot of times people don't recognize some of the more subtle tells that a dog is getting uncomfortable. I'm not blaming you or anything, so please don't think that, but saying their isn't any warning is most likely an incorrect statement. There are a lot of warning signs dogs give off, more than just growling and raised hackles. A behaviorist could help you identify those as an owner while also working with your dog.

We had family friends growing up that would just put their dog in a kennel in their bedroom when people were over because they knew their dog did not do well with new people/lots of people. Not saying you have to do that, if you don't feel you can work with and handle the dog's shortcomings then that is fine. The rescue can try and find a better suited home with owners that live a lifestyle more conducive to the dogs/have more experience with his type of behavior. Just saying there are options before jumping right back to dropping the dog off at the rescue.

It stems down to your comfort level, the amount of time, energy, and money you're willing to invest, etc.

Like someone else mentioned, you should also take him to a vet to see if there's anything health wise that could be a contributing factor to his behavior.

Also, it is not the best to stick your hands in a dog's face. Most people do that to "give them a chance to sniff them" but it shouldn't really be done. Your partner definitely needs to be aware that this is a serious matter though...5-6 stitches is serious

 

[scottwilson]

@1godspace Definitely going to start with a behaviorist! I can usually tell when the dog is uncomfortable and I've been able to de-escalate introductions for him before but I wasn't present this time. I guess when I said no warning, I was just repeating what I was told by the people present. And they're not as animal savvy so it's very likely there was subtle body language present.

 

[1godspace]

@scottwilson Yeah, it was unfortunate you weren't there, but you can't always be there for every introduction, and that's why it's super important your partner realizes that it is a big deal. They need to take it seriously because not taking it seriously is going to amplify the problem/behavior. It's good on you that you are looking into handling it how it should be. You sound like a very responsible dog owner

 

[scottwilson]

@1godspace thank you, I'm trying to do the right thing

 

[mirrorport]

@1godspace Has anyone thought of mentioning that this dog should not be around old people or people handicapped in some way?

 

[yankeebo]

@scottwilson He'll take it seriously if this dog bites a child.

Unfortunately a large dog with an unpredictable bite history is unlikely to have people queuing up to adopt them. Difficult as it may be you may have to work this out between you guys and the rescue.

Totally agree with your plan with the behaviourist. In the mean time I recommend a book called Doggy Language. It's a short guide to canine body language that I found super helpful. It may be your dog is giving more subtle cues of discomfort, maybe they were previously punished for more obvious ones. Best of luck!

 

[scottwilson]

@yankeebo his parents have a dog that tried to bite their grandchild in the face and they really didn't do much about that except sometimes they try to kennel the dog if kids are around so unfortunately that precedent has been set. I will look for that book, thank you!

 

[kabob]

@scottwilson That dog should never be around children. Do people not know how dangerous this is?

 

[scottwilson]

@kabob agree completely! I couldn't believe it when I heard about that. But there's a lot about those two that is baffling.

 

[ashnic101]

@scottwilson I hope your bf treats you okay. Being raised by these parents and not thinking the bite is a big deal makes me worry a little about you. I know you didn’t ask but you seem like you have a big heart sooooo

 

[scottwilson]

@ashnic101 I appreciate the concern! I'm okay. He's sort of taking it seriously but his approach is more like, well it happened and that's just how it is, guess we'll need to be more careful. But we were trying to be careful and this still happened.

 

[ashnic101]

@scottwilson

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@scottwilson If the aggression is unprovoked, then it will be extremely difficult to find a trainer that will work with the dog. Working with textbook reactivity is one thing, but attacking with no warning is completely different. You also have to understand that not many people are willing to take in an aggressive (especially when it bites with no warning), almost 100lb dog.

 

[alexm961]

@scottwilson You can find a great behaviourist near you on the IAABC website. They will definitely be able to help.

 

[bigmike424]

@scottwilson I would also have him checked by the vet. Dogs are just as prone to mental illness as humans are.

Anxiety, depression, bipolar, PTSD, and similar disorders are surprisingly common in dogs and cats, and even more so in rescue animals.

The vet might be able to prescribe a basic anti-anxiety medication and see if that helps the behavior any. It’s incredibly difficult to train a dog to stop being reactive when their own brain chemistry is always set to “high alert” every waking moment.

 

[scottwilson]

@bigmike424 We will definitely be working on muzzle training so we can get him to the vet safely. A few people have suggested medication but I'm not sure if that would help as much given that he only has issues sometimes? When it's just myself and my partner, he's very chill and sociable with us, super sweet really. And I would say more than half the time, he's actually been fine meeting new people (in a structured introduction scenario). And the person he bit was someone he had previously met and had been fine with. Actually warmed up to them pretty fast initially.