Warning grumble or “talking” grumble?

@enealey Tail wagging.. immediately stops as soon as husband (or me when he does it to me) back off… immediately resumes whatever he was doing prior to the grumbling.

He usually does it if husband gets in his space (hugging/kissing on him etc typically close to his face)

I swear. Husband is like a dang 5 year old who doesn’t listen when it comes to Jet and his… uh… uniqueness! insert my OWN grumble
 
@wayofthepromise Definitely sounds like a personal bubble warning to me... But I'm definitely not a professional, just someone who also grumbles at people in my personal space 🤣. Plenty of dogs do not like people up in their face- and I can't blame them.

The biggest thing that a lot of people seem to fail to realize is that animals are not objects, and you do have to respect them/their space
 
@enealey Yesssss!! I agree! Get in my space and I’m gonna give someone one warning grumble!

Now. To “break” husband of this habit!

I have to add.. Jet does it to me, when he climbs in my lap or attempts to. All 84 pounds of him. If I pet his head, he’s fine. If I lean in.. no bueno. Grumble. Helllloooooo - you came into MY space by jumping in my lap. There’s only so much leaning back I can do. 🤷🏼‍♀️🤣

He’s like a finicky CAT. Love me when I want, how I want. 2 pets (or kisses) too many and you’re gonna get reprimanded!

I wish Jet would have a shut down mode.. maybe remove himself from the situation (not gonna happen, I know!) instead.. he goes back for MORE.
 
@wayofthepromise He sounds adorable! Our two are hold-me babies, personal space does not exist. No such thing as too many pets, ever- trade for a week? Kidding (mostly).

If it helps at all, I accidentally clicker trained mine. Took me a year to realize that right before I gave a command, I snapped my fingers- so now every time I snap my fingers, they go to "wait" mode, and they pause whatever they are doing. Handy, because I know their attention is focused, and sometimes it gives us both that break that we need to refocus or reset.

My husband is ALSO one of the "well I know this breed/dog and it's fine!" type person- which means he gets our big dog super riled up to the point where she has no bite inhibition, and she gets very "nibbly." It took a crap-ton of training for the poor dog to get to the point where she know the different between "mom play" and "dad play."
 
@enealey He really is a good dog…. AT HOME. The fact that he (in my MIL’s words!) “tried to EAT ME!” - or that he barks/growls at people that get too close. He is muzzled when we go for walks at the park.. has his own corner suite at the boarding place (they give him ice cream and shnacks. And leave him be when gets too rowdy) But he doesn’t come out to “play” bc there is only ONE girl he “likes” there (she happens to look like me too.)

I’m trying to get his act together.. but it is HARD, man!! An ongoing work in progress that is constant! Thankfully I’ve been OFF for the last 4 days, so things have been consistent here lately, til dad comes home and everything is a free for all. 🫣🙄
 
@wayofthepromise It IS so hard! It feels like constant work, all the time, ALWAYS feels like you are making excuses... And even harder if your partner does not keep the routine up, because then it feels like you start from square one!

Our big girl is dog aggressive. BUT we cannot muzzle her (at least right now, slooooowwwwwly working on it, had tried before and she did nothing in the house, but I honestly think she just fully shut down now that i look back) guessing she has muzzle/face trauma, which just amps up MY anxiety on walks.

It is absolutely amazing that he has such a great boarding place! Those can be really hard to find for accommodations
 
@enealey The boarding place (called bubbles and bows)
!) is AMAZING!! After the traumatic boarding event at our former VET OFFICE (at 2 years old. They left him in the kennel for 7 days. Just cleaned up around the kennel space) . The office manager was the one there at night - she “didn’t take him out at all bc he barked at me one time. And that’s my limit”. all this aggressive behavior/assholed-ness didn’t start until AFTER THAT.) not that I’m blaming THEM fully, but. It definitely didn’t help.

Of course they didn’t TELL ME THAT until I needed to board him again a couple months later - as I’m leaving for the airport, I go to drop him off - same office manager “oh. They didn’t tell you he’s not allowed to be boarded here anymore??” (Jet squared up between my legs and got stiff/growled/hair all fuzzed up) as she was walking towards us.

We have been back for shots/annual visits. BUT. She has since been let go, and we found a new vet! Thank God.
 
@enealey Forgot to say.. we tried clicker training Jet. I swear. He could NOT get it that the CLICK meant TREAT. And just snarfed the treat out of my hand (holding it up away from him is never gonna happen when he’s as tall as me when standing upright! Ha)

He WILL do anything and everything for his “piggie” (those snarfing/oinking fat pig toys from the store!) and will do most things for ME, just bc I ask. 🤷🏼‍♀️🤣
 
@wayofthepromise Oh I am so sorry to hear about the vet boarding experience... That's awful. I don't want to jump to bad conclusions, but his reaction to her almost seems like there may have been something more that happened... But some animals are more sensitive than others. Prior to me getting her, someone has twitched my horse's ear to trim her feet. Got her, and guess what? Couldn't touch her ears, or her feet. Took YEARS of working with her, and to this day she is still flinchy around her back feet.

At least he's praise motivated! I have one food motivated (she will do almost anything for a snack, does not matter what the snack is) and one puts treats down because he prefers praise/snacks. Jet sounds like he really is a one person dog
 
@enealey No worries on the jumping.. as soon as I saw Jets reaction to her just WALKING thru the doorway that was 15 feet away, I jumped to my own damn conclusions!!

Idk what twitching of ears is.. but it doesn’t sound pleasant if your horse hates her feet/ears messed with that much! Poor baby.

I was AMAZED at how well Jet did with the board and train trainer… recall from across a park with no leash?! Laying in pet store and letting random people pet him?! I so wish we could have continued with the training classes they offered. They always had them on nights I had to work, or at locations that were 2+ hours away on work days. My fault 100% tho. We are def paying for that NOW!!

He is pretty treat/food in general motivated.. but that piggy. Piggie is life. 🤣
 
@wayofthepromise Oh not your fault at all, inconvenient times are just that, inconvenient - sometimes it's worth it and sometimes it's not, but so awesome that he has a great experience there! Sounds like he was in a good place to be relaxed and drop his guard down.

Oh man the pig... I can just imagine him walking into a room full of them and going absolutely bonkers with joy! Both of mine only like the crinkly toys, and my big girl is actually afraid of the big squeaky pigs, oops

I should have explained, but to twitch a horse's ear you would essentially twist and compress it to trigger the sensitive nerves at the base of the ear- there is also a lip twitch where, same thing, you twist the horse's lower lip. Totally unnecessary
 
@enealey Oh nooooo. That sounds horrible! And the point of that is… what exactly? Twist so much that it hurts if they move/get uncomfortable with having their feet trimmed? Ugh. That breaks my heart!! So glad she is free of that now.

Jet would absolutely lose his CHIT if he had that many piggies! At one time he had prob 10. I think we’re down to 2 right now.. one that still grunts/oinks. One that is silent bc he dismantled the oinker.

Meanwhile - Zeus (chow/husky mix) is happy with a dang milk bone treat and prances around the house like he’s got the greatest thing in the world.

Dogs and their personalities (good and bad!) are something. 🤣
 
@wayofthepromise I'd say take some ABC data. Every time the grumble happens write down the Antecedent (what happened immediately before) the behavior (grumbling and other cooccuring behaviors) and the consequence (what happens immediately after the behavior). Over time you should be able to see a pattern. Pay attention to the consequence because that is likely what is reinforcing the behavior. As in, if your husband then backs off and gets out of your dog's space then you know that the grumble is intended to make your husband back off. Or if instead the consequence is that your husband throws the ball or initiates more play then the dog is grumbling to get more play. You have to take a lot of data on it though, to make sure you're understanding.
 
@wayofthepromise I would reach out to your vet and ask for a referral to a vet behaviourist.

As a matter of urgency

You don't say what methods the board and train used. It is possible they taught him to suppress warning signs and only now is he feeling comfortable enough to express his boundaries

He needs to be listened to and his signals properly read: a behaviourist will get through to your husband I am sure!

In the mean time would permission based handling be something that would be helpful for your husband to read. A neutral source and sadly a spouse not just saying it would be helpful

https://www.petminded.co/blog/3-ideas-to-practice-consent-training-with-your-dog

Annoyingly!

Your dog sounds like it is stressed to some extent and does need people around it to modify their behaviour and build up trust
 
@monk58 We just got a new veterinarian who was AMAZING with Jet… Jet growled ONCE when he got his shots (and his man berry evaluated!) and was chill aside from that one growl. I will definitely call them and see what they can refer us to!

Jet has cryptorchidism, and has yet to be neutered, so THAT is adding to the issue at hand. The new vet will do the neutering, which is completely different from the last one who for the first 2 years said “we will watch it” that doc retired and the new replacement vet said “both of them have to be removed” but “I don’t do that. You have to find someone else.” Yet didn’t refer me to anyone else! But they told me the day I had them fax his records to the NEW vet that his vaccines were all expired since 2021 - which is completely untrue. His vaccines JUST expired on 06/10, and his appt was 06/20! So.. not a whole lot of confidence in the old vet office anyway!

I have NO IDEA what methods the board and train used! There was ZERO explanation/teaching/info provided when we picked him up.. aside from “come to classes” - we managed to do 3 classes after that (1-2 hours away from home depending on where they were held, and always seemed to be on nights I worked nights at the time!) those classes were for anyone and everyone and they focused on basic obedience - leash walking and sit/leave it. Which.. he had/has down well!

I will read the info in the link, and make sure the husband reads it as well!!

Thank you for your info!!!
 
@monk58 Ps! I read the just first 3 paragraphs, and I’m already excited!

Have to get ready for work (dun dunn dunnnnnnn) but I will read it in its entirety later! Already sent it to the hubs as well… told him he has some homework to read when he gets to his hotel tonight!

Thanks again!!
 
@wayofthepromise That is really good. I thought of you describing him as like a cat and then the permission based stuff... thought it might really help

People get scratched by cats because they don't read the signals!

Dogs are more tolerant but not all of them
 
@wayofthepromise I'd suggest your husband needs to start feeding and training him to create a positive association. I know it's hard with GSDs because theyre typically one-man (or woman) dogs. I have one and she adores me but like yours sort of only tolerated my partner to begin with. This is not a good thing- I know it can feel flattering and special but it's really no good for the dog. It shouldn't be encouraged in any shape or form. Your husband needs to be viewed as part of his circle to make sure aggression isn't on the cards.

I know you said your husband works away but if he could even spend 10 minutes every now and then training him with positive reinforcement and treats I think it will make a huge difference. It doesn't even matter what you train but I'd recommend starting somewhere that's not already loaded (i.e if your dog is possessive of the couch for example don't start there- somewhere neutral and irrelevant is best).

I don't think your husband's earned a place in the dogs mind to share affection yet. I'd probably replace the affection with the training I've suggested above until the dog is very comfortable with him. The growls are a warning and if your husband ignores then there's a danger the dog will see his warnings as useless and go straight to contact.
 
@silykat A while ago (maybe 1-2 years ago?) I read something about “hand feeding” as a bonding type thing - ill see if I can find WHERE i read it!

So for several weeks when husband was home for a stretch of days (more than 3 which is few and far between!) we would take Jets bowl and have him hold it while Jet was eating, and then put the bowl away when he was done. There was ZERO issue with this. No growling, not lip licking (aside from normal sort of “yum this is good food” licking!) and there did seem to be positive reinforcement there.

Jet knows several commands without VERBALLY saying them - hand perpendicular to the floor and then raised is SIT. Finger pointed directly down to the floor is DOWN (lay) and I use them ALL THE TIME with him. Husband tries - but the SIT command is sort of floppy and multiple times (like verbally saying SIT over and over instead of just ONCE and waiting for him to sit) and I am always correcting HUSBAND (that sounds naggy as hell, but I’m being honest!!) to go slower with his sit command, only verbally say commands ONCE and then wait.

I really think that husband taking the time to do things slower and with more deliberate purpose would improve Jets… listening or idk… DANG IT. I’ve sort of lost my train of thought now!! 🥴

Husband has EIGHT days off once he gets home on Wednesday night, so we will DEFINITELY be working on some things (I’m not off ALLL those days, but 3-4 of them I am!) so we shall see how things go!!

I found these little bitty training treats (Nutro I believe!) on clearance when I was getting cat litter at Petsmart the other day - these may come in handy soon!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I am OFF today, and will see what I can accomplish (video wise of his reactions) the hand feeding/bonding thing isn’t a big issue with ME and Jet.. I almost feel like ME working with him almost makes it WORSE for husband.

Thank you so much for your insight!!
 
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