Warning grumble or “talking” grumble?

[eve_marie]

@wayofthepromise I also do board and trains, and calling some the dogs stubborn is generous at best. I train everything from dogs who need basic obedience, to dogs you can't touch with bite histories.

If your trainer wasn't doing handover sessions where they show you how to handle the dog, and showing you videos explaining the process as they go along, they weren't doing it properly.

Dogs are contextual learners, so how they act with the trainer doesn't always translate to how they act when they go home. At home there's a reinforcement history, typically bad habits, and the dog will look to go back to these habits unless held to the new standards.

This is where it's up to the trainer to guide you through this messy middle part where your dog knows what to do and how to act, but would rather not, because they're back in their original environment where the points are made up and the score doesn't matter.

Classes might help you understand how to handle the dog in that environment, but the trainer is still present, and it's not your actual home environment.

 

[wayofthepromise]

@eve_marie He is definitely more than just stubborn!! I was being super generous!

Yes. No handover anything… although.. not sure what happened after class number 3. Even that was basically going over sit. And walking on leash. Which.. both of those he has down well.

We will go back to basic obedience at home, put the cabbash on anything that produces the growl/grumble/whatever behavior (from BOTH of them!!) and look for a trainer/class closer to home - I will be doing my research prior to selecting someone. At least NOW, I know what questions to ask!

 

[aveotheotokos]

@eve_marie HA!!! So true. /reactivedogs has some wired death cult / Behavioral Euthanasia for All Problems thing going on……

 

[sarahtoo]

@wayofthepromise Hard to say without seeing it. Might not be obvious then.

I will say Dog Daddy is one of the worst trainers I have ever seen. Hammers the shit out of the dogs with a prong collar, most of the time they dont even know what is expected of them. Dog shuts down with fear and he claims to have fixed them in one session for his bs tiktok videos. Take a look at people like Robert Cabral, Michel Ellis, Nate Schoemer for good balanced trainers (lots more too sorry if I didnt mention anyones favorite).

 

[churchjewelry]

@sarahtoo Seconding Nate Schoemer

 

[wayofthepromise]

@sarahtoo I will do some looking at the people you’ve mentioned!! Thanks!

 

[radikal]

@wayofthepromise Well, it's important to be careful around a dog that has been aggressive in the past. That said, no one has any idea here because we can't see it. We can't read the body language.

Also, that said, I've played rough with my formerly seriously aggressive dog and other dogs that I have a very good relationship with. I know their limits and stop or lighten up if anything makes them uncomfortable. Those dogs also pay attention to anything that is too much for me, or I tell them that it is. Some of them have growled the whole time while rough housing. My friend's gentle Aus Shep shows her teeth, snarls and "bites" me and it looks really horrible but we're actually both paying a lot of attention to how much the other can take. It's a big joke between us and a lot of fun. This is a dog that naturally plays rough with puppies and very gentle with old dogs- no one had to teach her that, she's just a smart considerate dog. OTOH there are other dogs I would never ever play rough with, no matter how good a relationship I had with them.

That said, I would never fall on top of a dog.. That's just too much..

What might be a clue is IF your husband or the dog can stop the play pretty much right away when they want to.

 

[wayofthepromise]

@radikal Thank you for your response! Husband has never fallen on Jet, or played THAT rough with him… I think that suggestion was from another person who was using it as a tool to get thru to husband that IF he were to fall when playing rough, then it would not be a good thing!

I have 2 videos now (FINALLLLLY!) this one I just took. The other one from this morning is linked in my original post.

 

[radikal]

@wayofthepromise Dog looks confused as to why your husband is being consoling rather than playing. IDK, that's all I can see here.

 

[jaenalyn]

@wayofthepromise

When husband plays with him, loves on him.. even when Jet initiates said interaction, he does this low whiny/grumbley GROWL. Sometimes teeth showing, sometimes not.

No roughhousing with the dog. Do not hug the dog. Do not kiss the dog. Stop agitating the dog. Start obedience training immediately.

 

[wayofthepromise]

@jaenalyn Thank you!

Where do I START?! Like back at the beginning? Where they told me to keep him ATTACHED to me at all times?

Sorry for the… neediness. It’s been a looooooong time of reinforcing “bad” behavior - mostly on husbands part, but also on ME for not correcting it immediately, as I feel like Jet looks at me to be the one “in CHARGE” - much to husbands… dismay.

 

[jaenalyn]

@wayofthepromise If you guys have done obedience training in the past run a few tests and start working from wherever she's currently reliable

 

[vclr2010]

@wayofthepromise Amy tile a dog lifts lips to bare teeth take it seriously.
grumbling can be different but until I see and hear it. I don't know.
since he sees you as alpha, if then becomes up to you, what is there is not permitted. If you don't put up with it and he respects you with alpha, he has to knock it off

 

[wayofthepromise]

@vclr2010 Let’s see if my link works!

 

[wayofthepromise]

@vclr2010 If they are doing their.. thing - typically play time that gets rowdy and husband does whatever he does (hug him. Try to kiss his head) to make Jet growl, and I interject with “JET. Knock it off! (Or “HUSBAND. STOP. IT!”) then they both stop then stare at me like “what did we do?!. Until Jet reinitiates rowdy play time.

I have to run some errands, but will try and take/upload a short video later today!

 

[vclr2010]

@wayofthepromise Having seen the video, I noticed an aspecf of domination the dog himself may not even be aware of, in holding his arm, but the vocalizations were just grumbling talk, and he didn't show teeth in any sort of a menacing way.

It has been a few weeks since I responded to your post. is there ever anything more threatening than that and if not, it's just confusion. Is it possible that he's Matt your husband for being away?