@mahhko It is actually extremely inappropriate she said that to you from just one conversation over the phone, without actually meeting your dog. I would be pissed if I was you. Your dog doesn’t sound aggressive at all, she sounds reactive… and fear based reaction at that. She is scared of the world, and reacting to that. This is not an unfixable problem, just from a surface perspective. I have worked with many fearful dogs and it is something that can be greatly improved. I wouldn’t want to say specifics without actually meeting the dog, but don’t lose hope just from this one conversation you had with that woman. She shouldn’t be giving any specifics over the phone without meeting, let alone telling you to do such an extreme thing without meeting. Ugh. I’m angry now too lol
Spoke to a behaviourist, now I’m scared.
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wingsoffaith
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@mahhko I rescued a dog that used to be that way...with time, patience, spaying + being a responsible owner, he turned out to be the sweetest and smartest dog ever, he'll be 15 years old this year and I feel so priviledge to have him. Don't give up on him, he wouldn't give up on you. You can train him...get a good book, nobody will do it better than you with your love and determination. That is what I did.❤. Keep us posted please.
marc_antony
New member
dragonfyre
New member
cindi4work
New member
@dragonfyre Copied from my reply above, so forgive the redundancy
"behavioural euthanasia" - putting a dog down because of how it behaves. It is, sadly, sometimes necessary, but it should be a last resort.
"behavioural euthanasia" - putting a dog down because of how it behaves. It is, sadly, sometimes necessary, but it should be a last resort.
dragonfyre
New member
@cindi4work I guessed by people's reactions it was killing the dog but couldn't think what it stood for. Thanks
@dragonfyre The E is for euthanasia
This makes me so sad. I have a reactive dog that has bitten and I would never consider putting her down I would move to the country and keep her safe. I mean these pups are like our kids. That was just horrible and I would have been so mad and crying. Ugh !
This makes me so sad. I have a reactive dog that has bitten and I would never consider putting her down I would move to the country and keep her safe. I mean these pups are like our kids. That was just horrible and I would have been so mad and crying. Ugh !
blessedinff
New member
@mahhko I honestly wouldn't trust the opinion of someone who's never even met you or your dog. It seems like a huge jump to the worst possible option.
I would ignore that specific advice and try to find someone different. There's a quality of life assessment a lot of folks here will refer to, you might be able to find it through the search bar or flairs of similar posts.
If you can go through that checklist and assess your dog with that criteria, I think you'll get a better picture of where you're at.
Muzzling is a great start in the meantime, and just keep minimizing risks (ie no children around unless muzzled, using your walking path, etc.).
Also - I can relate to your pupper, I feel worse about people without dogs too.
I would ignore that specific advice and try to find someone different. There's a quality of life assessment a lot of folks here will refer to, you might be able to find it through the search bar or flairs of similar posts.
If you can go through that checklist and assess your dog with that criteria, I think you'll get a better picture of where you're at.
Muzzling is a great start in the meantime, and just keep minimizing risks (ie no children around unless muzzled, using your walking path, etc.).
Also - I can relate to your pupper, I feel worse about people without dogs too.
@blessedinff Thanks, I will try to have a look. Honestly I think with the measures we put in place she is pretty happy 90% of the time, unless there’s a trigger but she gets over stuff pretty quickly anyway. And I think some of her barking is now for attention also because we come and tell her to be quiet. I’ve noticed she’s a lot quieter if I go upstairs and leave her downstairs 
@mahhko There's a great Facebook group called Muzzle up, pup - The Pro-Muzzle Community, they have really excellent fit guides and people showing how they have modified their muzzles to make them fit perfectly and look super fun! It's a really great community full of support. The muzzle should provide enough pant room that your dog could be holding a tennis ball and it would still fit. Many people, even sometimes vets and trainers, will recommend a muzzle that is dangerously too small. I learned a lot in that group. That behaviourist sounds like a psycho, I wouldn't trust anyone who would recommend something as extreme as a BE without even seeing the animal. That's batshit. If your dog is sweet at home and the reactivity is clearly based in anxiety then I absolutely think this is something that you can work with her on with the right tools. Your dog isn't lashing out because of some unchangeable brain defect - she's scared. I'm so mad she said that to you.
cindi4work
New member
@telur1 That's where I learned I needed a larger muzzle for my dog. Great group!
He doesn't bite - unless you're a face mask, shopping bag, children's mitten, piece of paper, or anything he could mistake for those. Okay, he doesn't bite those, either. He hoovers them straight into his stomach.
I hate that he needs the muzzle, because then people are afraid of him. He's incredibly social and extroverted, but he gets things down too fast for "drop it", and I just cannot manage to see everything. It would help a lot if people didn't just throw their trash everywhere. He once found most of a cheeseburger in the bushes next to a hiking trail 2 miles from the nearest trailhead. Wtf?
Our other dog came to us an anxious mess with almost no training except being housebroken and trained not to play at almost 8 years old. We've had him close to 3 years now, and he's tons better in spite of a few trainers at the start recommending BE even though he didn't bite at all except the first few attempts at grooming, and then it was the brush he bit. He just wanted to hide behind me or glue himself to my leg. He now loves being brushed, is mostly well mannered on a leash, and will greet new people and get pets if they don't come on too strong - unless they're small children. They're allowed to do anything at all to him, apparently. I don't allow it, but he doesn't care what they do. Like OP's dog, he was always great with other dogs and people who had dogs - and children in any context. It was strangers without dogs that scared him, and only when he was on a leash. The first step was him learning that I would let him walk away from people with a leash on. The next was him getting to meet lots of people off leash at our house where he had a safe place to retreat to. He still needs to be the one to approach, but he's excited to get pets now from everyone, or happy to lie next to my leg if I haven't given him permission yet.
The only thing we're still working on is his really bad separation anxiety from our other dog. He cannot handle being separated unless I'm there with him the whole time. That's really my fault. I thought to work with him on that with me, but not the other dog. It didn't occur to me they would be to be apart, and then i took them to be groomed at the same time. He lost his fluffy mind when he was left in a kennel in the back while the other dog was groomed. We're up to them being able to be groomed, but I can't leave the house with the other dog without him for more than 5 minutes yet unless my husband pets him and sings to him the entire time. My husband can't even walk away on a trail with the other dog. He'll start howling once they're out of sight. I can walk away with him now, but my husband cannot. I swear, he's not our dog. He's our other dog's dog.
He doesn't bite - unless you're a face mask, shopping bag, children's mitten, piece of paper, or anything he could mistake for those. Okay, he doesn't bite those, either. He hoovers them straight into his stomach.
I hate that he needs the muzzle, because then people are afraid of him. He's incredibly social and extroverted, but he gets things down too fast for "drop it", and I just cannot manage to see everything. It would help a lot if people didn't just throw their trash everywhere. He once found most of a cheeseburger in the bushes next to a hiking trail 2 miles from the nearest trailhead. Wtf?
Our other dog came to us an anxious mess with almost no training except being housebroken and trained not to play at almost 8 years old. We've had him close to 3 years now, and he's tons better in spite of a few trainers at the start recommending BE even though he didn't bite at all except the first few attempts at grooming, and then it was the brush he bit. He just wanted to hide behind me or glue himself to my leg. He now loves being brushed, is mostly well mannered on a leash, and will greet new people and get pets if they don't come on too strong - unless they're small children. They're allowed to do anything at all to him, apparently. I don't allow it, but he doesn't care what they do. Like OP's dog, he was always great with other dogs and people who had dogs - and children in any context. It was strangers without dogs that scared him, and only when he was on a leash. The first step was him learning that I would let him walk away from people with a leash on. The next was him getting to meet lots of people off leash at our house where he had a safe place to retreat to. He still needs to be the one to approach, but he's excited to get pets now from everyone, or happy to lie next to my leg if I haven't given him permission yet.
The only thing we're still working on is his really bad separation anxiety from our other dog. He cannot handle being separated unless I'm there with him the whole time. That's really my fault. I thought to work with him on that with me, but not the other dog. It didn't occur to me they would be to be apart, and then i took them to be groomed at the same time. He lost his fluffy mind when he was left in a kennel in the back while the other dog was groomed. We're up to them being able to be groomed, but I can't leave the house with the other dog without him for more than 5 minutes yet unless my husband pets him and sings to him the entire time. My husband can't even walk away on a trail with the other dog. He'll start howling once they're out of sight. I can walk away with him now, but my husband cannot. I swear, he's not our dog. He's our other dog's dog.
@mahhko Muzzling is fine while you look for a genuine behaviorist. As far as barking, and then you coming to her attention (to tell her to calm down or lay down) it may seem she may associate ANY response from you as a good response??? In-home, I would suggest giving high value treats in a calm period, and redirecting her gaze (and no barking) to you when she’s barking at something outside. Then reward her after 3-5 seconds of good behavior. Rinse and repeat. T try not to give comfort during their fear phases and fear based reactions. Hope it helps while you look for a quality behaviorist.
@mahhko Silly reference to Gov Kristi Noem who shot her 14 mo old dog because she felt she couldn't train it. OP (you) here is demonstrating what SHOULD be done when you have a difficult dog...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna150331
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna150331
ibelieveinjesus2013
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vikimahauty
New member
@mahhko Absolutely NOT true. Sounds like you are British and my limited understanding of what the requirements are for a person to call themselves a “behaviourist” is very mixed. Some people have a solid educational background in modern science based behavior modification and others simply don’t. It is unfortunately similar in the USA.
My opinion, as someone with several years of experience, is that statement is a HUGE red flag and you should look for another person to work with.
My personal dog has “stranger danger” and it is something we are working on. Her ability to interact with strangers has greatly improved… so I can assure you personally as well as professionally that it can get better.
If you want a lower cost option with a highly qualified professional behavior consultant I would recommend this program https://www.mightymuttsdogtraining.com/confidence-builders-academy
My opinion, as someone with several years of experience, is that statement is a HUGE red flag and you should look for another person to work with.
My personal dog has “stranger danger” and it is something we are working on. Her ability to interact with strangers has greatly improved… so I can assure you personally as well as professionally that it can get better.
If you want a lower cost option with a highly qualified professional behavior consultant I would recommend this program https://www.mightymuttsdogtraining.com/confidence-builders-academy
@vikimahauty Second all of this, especially the recommendation for Mighty Mutts.
Teapipp - I had a “behaviorist” (the quotes are intentional) also recommend I BE our at the time 6 month old GSD based on seeing a video of her behavior. Thank goodness I went with my gut and ignored her. Our pup is now almost 3 years old. With Shane at Mighty Mutt’s help, as well as meds prescribed by a wonderful vet behaviorist, she is a different dog. We are training her in shopping centers because Shane believes she can someday be a “hang out at an outdoor cafe” dog. Go find a new behaviorist and ignore anyone who would give you a recommendation like this without even meeting your dog.
Edit: Shane is running a sale right now for his group class. Here’s the link.
CBA is 3! Help us celebrate by redeeming our free gift for new students - $50 off your first 3 months. Enroll before 5/31 with discount code CBABDAY3 or use this link: https://confidence-builders-academy...confidence-builders-academy-1?coupon=CBABDAY3
Teapipp - I had a “behaviorist” (the quotes are intentional) also recommend I BE our at the time 6 month old GSD based on seeing a video of her behavior. Thank goodness I went with my gut and ignored her. Our pup is now almost 3 years old. With Shane at Mighty Mutt’s help, as well as meds prescribed by a wonderful vet behaviorist, she is a different dog. We are training her in shopping centers because Shane believes she can someday be a “hang out at an outdoor cafe” dog. Go find a new behaviorist and ignore anyone who would give you a recommendation like this without even meeting your dog.
Edit: Shane is running a sale right now for his group class. Here’s the link.
CBA is 3! Help us celebrate by redeeming our free gift for new students - $50 off your first 3 months. Enroll before 5/31 with discount code CBABDAY3 or use this link: https://confidence-builders-academy...confidence-builders-academy-1?coupon=CBABDAY3
cindi4work
New member
@mjr88 We did anti anxiety meds briefly when we adopted our dog at the suggestion of our vet. They made him worse. I called the vet after a few days, and he was like, "okay, no more of those." Trainers advised BE even though he was never aggressive. His reaction was to hide behind me when faced with strangers and only if he was on a leash.
When I adopted him, I'd planned a few meetings and some days out with him before taking him home, but he so obviously was being neglected and in need of medical care that he came home with us that day. And he glued himself to either me or the other dog for a few months while he gained weight and health. Once he felt better, physically, training became possible.
My vet said I shouldn't have let a trainer assess him until he was completely healthy, but there was some doubt for a bit that he ever would be. I didn't want him to be scared of people for the rest of his life. And, without a trainer, we did make some progress those first few months. It was just very slow, but he was coming back from severe malnutrition and dehydration, so I think that was to be expected. His previous owners were an elderly couple that clearly couldn't even take care of themselves properly. I wish they'd done it sooner, but I'm glad they made the choice to rehome him while he was still able to recover fully. He's a very healthy, active, and fit 10 1/2 year old now who loves hiking, bikejoring, dog sledding, and helping with trail maintenance. And he's more or less well trained. We're still working on some leash manners when it comes to other excitable dogs. They're his kryptonite if he's not working. While working, he completely ignores them. I wish I could put it in his head that walks around the neighborhood are working, too, but he knows better.
When I adopted him, I'd planned a few meetings and some days out with him before taking him home, but he so obviously was being neglected and in need of medical care that he came home with us that day. And he glued himself to either me or the other dog for a few months while he gained weight and health. Once he felt better, physically, training became possible.
My vet said I shouldn't have let a trainer assess him until he was completely healthy, but there was some doubt for a bit that he ever would be. I didn't want him to be scared of people for the rest of his life. And, without a trainer, we did make some progress those first few months. It was just very slow, but he was coming back from severe malnutrition and dehydration, so I think that was to be expected. His previous owners were an elderly couple that clearly couldn't even take care of themselves properly. I wish they'd done it sooner, but I'm glad they made the choice to rehome him while he was still able to recover fully. He's a very healthy, active, and fit 10 1/2 year old now who loves hiking, bikejoring, dog sledding, and helping with trail maintenance. And he's more or less well trained. We're still working on some leash manners when it comes to other excitable dogs. They're his kryptonite if he's not working. While working, he completely ignores them. I wish I could put it in his head that walks around the neighborhood are working, too, but he knows better.