Spoke to a behaviourist, now I’m scared.

[mahhko]

I feel awful. I love my pup. She is a 1.5 year Labrador cocker mix. She didn’t come from a great place, but we got her at 8 weeks.

She is very anxious, alert barks all the time and is so scared to be on the street that I only walk her in a field where we don’t see anyone. She is fearful of strangers and especially children. She has started to react to children, barking at them.

I want to work with a behaviourist so I have been calling a few to find out prices, and it’s something I’m saving up for because I don’t work right now and we are on a single income.

She has been on Prozac for 6 months now with not much effect, and I fear her world is shrinking.

She has never ever bitten anyone and loves her favourite people and loves all other dogs. She actually accepts people who have dogs but won’t accept people if they don’t have a dog.

Our vet has suggested muzzle training now she is actually reacting to people, which I got today and I’m going to start training.

I called a behaviourist yesterday and she essentially said on the phone, she isn’t going to get better, only worse. She said to me the responsible choice is BE and I got so sad. I was crying all day, and even called my vet to discuss it. But I just can’t go through with it.

She is a perfect dog at home, we love her, have found a walk she loves and is safe and I feel with muzzle training she will be safe outside on that walk or if we need to have people over for any reason.

But speaking to the lady on the phone terrified me. Now I’m looking at her with fear that she will turn on me one day, or hurt someone and I’m still feeling shaken up even though nothing has happened. I don’t know how to get over this, I don’t want to be afraid of my beautiful girl. Is she a hopeless case?

EDIT: Ok wow. I can’t believe the response I got, I never was expecting this! Thank you everyone.

I think I need to explain a few things. Firstly, we’re in the UK. I had a trainer working with her first when she was around 8 months and we realised that with all the general puppy training stuff you find online she was beginning to have the fear problems. The other trainer who online said she was also a ‘behaviourist’ didn’t feel like exactly the right fit for her, so I stopped with her.

In the uk only fluoxetine is licensed for use for dog anxiety and our vet then suggested a clinical vetinary behaviourist that can prescribe other things ‘off label’. She gave me two numbers and I will get in contact to check prices and things again because our budget is low.

So I called a couple of dog charities here in the UK on their behaviour advice line. The Dogs Trust has their own accredited behaviour specialists that they use on reduced rates because they want you to keep your dog, so that is currently what I am saving up for, they were really nice on the phone and I’m putting measures in place to keep my pup as happy as can be that they suggested while I am saving for it. I’m also looking at others and have now found out which ‘letters’ to look out for after names thank to you all.

The second ‘behaviourist’ that the post is referring to is from another dog charity and it was a booked phone appointment. She took the history and yes I probably sounded despaired on the phone because it was a particularly bad day, but I was expecting at least some practical advice like the other behaviour advice line I called.

The call went like this:
-She took the dogs history and my backstory -She asked me if the trainer I used was behaviour certified and checked her website and said anybody can call themselves a behaviourist and not to trust the trainer.
-she said she had worked with dogs with behaviour issues for 30+ years was qualified and based on my dogs mix and history she didn’t think she would improve.
-she asked which VB my own vet suggested and said they cost thousands of pounds and that I won’t have the funds based on our financial situation.
-she said that some dogs are just genetically bad and explained to me a few horror stories of other dogs that were autopsied and had half a brain after they were put down and those kinds of dogs won’t get better.
-she then said my best option was BE because she thinks my dog is like that.
-she said she was sorry, she wished she could wave a magic wand and there was more she could do and then ended the call.

All of your responses have been a life saver honestly. I’m determined to get somewhere with my pup and we’re both willing to accept she won’t ever be a ‘normal’ dog. We’re lucky she does have a ‘circle of trust’ and there are a few people she loves and can stay with if we need to go anywhere or on holiday etc.

She is so lovely at home and she doesn’t resource guard at all, and has never showed us any aggression at all, full stop.

I now know to not listen to this woman, and I will think about leaving their advice service a negative review. I’m still saving up and I’m going to start with muzzle training and other things like keeping her calm in her gated room because at the moment she doesn’t like being locked away but I think it will be possible to keep going with positive reinforcement.

Thanks again and if anyone has any good free resources for reactive dogs I’d be really happy to have a look at them in the meantime while I get some money together for these other things. It’s so nice to know there are others that have pups that sound just like her! I’m hopeful now we can lead a happy life together within her own personal boundaries.

 

[colodeck]

@mahhko She makes this statement without even seeing your dog? That seems irresponsible to me. What was your vets response to your call?

 

[mahhko]

@colodeck Thank you, yeah she hadn’t met me and it was the first thing she said after I explained the situation.

The vet that answered my call I don’t think has met her either, there’s lots of vets at the practice but only one on shift a day so I just called which ever was there. I think the vet just thought well a behaviourist said that so if you think it’s best we can. But I didn’t say a definite yes, I said I’d call back and left it because I couldn’t do that.

 

[colodeck]

@mahhko Keep going with your gut on this. Shame on that behaviorist. If you're comfortable I would put that in a review online, because it was extremely unprofessional of her. It doesn't sound to me like you're at that stage yet, but even if you were - that is something to evaluate in person or at least over more than a single phone call. Now I'm mad at her!

 

[michael21]

@colodeck It’s pretty widely accepted that canine anxiety rarely stays stagnant. It either gets better or worse over time. That much the literature agrees with.

Consider this: they’ve been able to change dogs’ temperaments. Why wouldn’t you be able to change yours? The evidence is clear in the scientific literature. It’s been done dozens of times in labs. It just may take a very focused, concerted effort. It helps if yours is food motivated of course.

I have one with the same problem and it’s improving, albeit slow. She has very little food drive is my problem. I’ve gotten to a point where she’ll focus on her ball through triggers. If yours likes food, counterconditioning works great. Refer your vet to the literature. Ridiculous to say that for sure it will get worse. Nobody can say that with certainty.

You’ve certainly missed the cricitical developmental socialization period when it would have been easy, but it just makes things harder, not impossible.

EDIT: She’s simply under socialized. There’s a famous behaviorist/dog trainer named dr Ian Dunbar, who specializes in reactive dogs like most behaviorists. Check him out. He would say it’s systematic desensitization and counterconditioning that you need.

 

[archhumanmichael]

@michael21 We can’t say the dog is under-socialized, especially because OP didn’t even tell us how they socialized the dog as a pup. There are plenty of well-socialized dogs that turn out reactive because it’s in their genetics.

 

[colodeck]

@michael21 FYI I'm not OP, you may want to reply to them in case they don't see your reply to me

 

[davidg467]

@mahhko That WAS NOT A BEHAVIORIST you spoke with.

What was this person’s education? Do they have a Doctor of veterinary medicine specialty in behavior or a veterinary technician specialty in behavior or a bachelor science in behavior or a masters degree in behavior? If no to any of the above, they’re just a dog trainer with questionable standards.

Not all trainers are the same!

The American Veterinarian Behavior Association website has a list of Board certified veterinary behavioralist you can contact.

Start there. If you don’t have one in your area, contact the closest one, they can help you find a VTS-B to help you.

I’m am currently studying to be a Behavioral Veterinary Technician Specialist and I train cats, dogs and horses in Texas.

Your dog can likely be helped but you need a solid team of professionals. You will need to adjust medications, control your environment and train under threshold with positive reinforcement techniques only.

Best of look to you on your journey.

 

[celtish]

@davidg467 There’s no way OP called a behaviorist and immediately got on the phone with them. Thai is some schmuck trainer calling themselves a behaviorist. I hope OP sees the comment I’m responding to because whoever they talked to sounds horrible.

 

[gatodeq]

@davidg467 Do you travel to north Dallas? Sorry just came across this while looking for a behaviorist in my area

 

[mgrehab]

@gatodeq Dallas doesn’t have one afaik. According to our behaviorist our vet behaviorist is the only one in TX. Houston does have one, and her resident. They are both great! Highly recommend

Edit: I just checked for board certified vet behaviorist. There are some other too in Austin, san antonio and west Texas

 

[mango]

@mgrehab I make the 4 hour drive to Houston and I can't recommend the practice enough. It's pricy, but they are managing the cognitive decline in my reactive senior and have been so wonderful.

 

[davidg467]

@gatodeq No. But we can zoom… I am in the greater Houston area.

 

[pazzz]

@mahhko This is totally irresponsible, I’m a behaviour trainer and I’d never tell you such definite outcomes before assessing your dog fully.

 

[shell65]

@mahhko This is very concerning. I can't imagine a vet making such a drastic suggestion. I would check credentials.
Fortunately I found a VB an hour away. Our 1st appointment to evaluate my dogs behavior was about 2 hours long. See if there is someone on the website below that you might be able to get to. My pup has similar problems as yours. It take time but my guy has improved so much. BE was never considered for me.

Look into BAT 2.0. We used the techniques in my dogs training and I loved the approach. It's a slow process but it doesn't cross your dogs boundries. I really hope you're able to find a vet that is supportive.

https://www.dacvb.org/

 

[bonabeans]

@shell65 Yes! Grisha Stewart is wonderful and force free.

 

[enigmaticaptcha]

@shell65 What is BE?

 

[soultired]

@enigmaticaptcha *Behavioural Euthanasia, aka, euthanasia due to extreme behavioural problems. I wouldn’t call this so extreme.

 

[enigmaticaptcha]

@soultired Neither would I. I am fricken aghast, and even more heartbroken that OP took it so to heart. DON'T LISTEN TO THAT INSANE PERSON! You have options! Have some hope!

 

[cindi4work]

@enigmaticaptcha "behavioural euthanasia" - putting a dog down because of how it behaves. It is, sadly, sometimes necessary, but it should be a last resort.