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Rant: doodles are making me want to quit dog grooming
- Thread starter otfl4jah
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- dog grooming
oceanwaves
New member
@heavenward7 Exactly. I wouldn't even get out of bed for a doodle if it didn't start at $75 for a "micro" or "mini" or whatever. Over 40 pounds? $150. Over 60 pounds? $200. Base price. Before dematting or any special additions. Designer dogs, designer prices.
seektruth247
New member
@otfl4jah As a former groomer, take care of your body. I was the go to doodle/poodle and large dog groomer in my salon. I had very few small dogs on my plate. It wrecked my body. My schedule was also like yours.
Other advice I have is, stop dematting these dogs! Shave them for their own sake and if the owners don't agree, let them go elsewhere. I never dematted poodles/doodles to that level. And I was fully booked with them for months! This also meant I was able to keep the clients that maintained their dog's coat better or learned from the shave down and took their home care instructions seriously.
My scissors needed to be maintained a bit more often because of the hand scissoring but my other tools were maintained at a normal rate. Also, charge more for them. Charge for your time, charge per size, hair type, extra scissoring, dematting fees when the fur is shaved off in tight sheets. Whatever you need to make it fair and also make a living.
Other advice I have is, stop dematting these dogs! Shave them for their own sake and if the owners don't agree, let them go elsewhere. I never dematted poodles/doodles to that level. And I was fully booked with them for months! This also meant I was able to keep the clients that maintained their dog's coat better or learned from the shave down and took their home care instructions seriously.
My scissors needed to be maintained a bit more often because of the hand scissoring but my other tools were maintained at a normal rate. Also, charge more for them. Charge for your time, charge per size, hair type, extra scissoring, dematting fees when the fur is shaved off in tight sheets. Whatever you need to make it fair and also make a living.
@otfl4jah I’m so sorry. That sounds so stressful and difficult. I have constant guilt when I read these posts because I am an owner of a bernese poodle mutt (who I adore!). But I knew what I was getting into, and I just don’t understand how people can’t grasp that they are a lot of work, when it takes literally 5 seconds to find the information on google. I brush mine completely 2-3x a week and he’s never been matted. It really shouldn’t be that hard for people to be prepared or just take some time to learn.
Can you look for a different job or groom on your own so that you can charge appropriately? Those prices are a lot lower than grooming in my area and I don’t think it’s enough for the amount of work.
Or can you have a lower threshold to shave them if they have mats so that you don’t have to kill your arm brushing out mats?
Can you look for a different job or groom on your own so that you can charge appropriately? Those prices are a lot lower than grooming in my area and I don’t think it’s enough for the amount of work.
Or can you have a lower threshold to shave them if they have mats so that you don’t have to kill your arm brushing out mats?
leoriofarel
New member
@salvia123 Ignorant, lying breeders is how doodle owners can't grasp the work involved in owning a doodle.
jakefromsf
New member
@otfl4jah It sucks to finally have the physical downside of this job finally kick in. Take time off for self care and reduce your schedule. Burnout is real.
Remember you do the dogs you want to do.
You don’t have to groom those big boys.
Have a better new client intake form.
You don’t take every new client.
Set policies and stick to them.
Remember you do the dogs you want to do.
You don’t have to groom those big boys.
Have a better new client intake form.
You don’t take every new client.
Set policies and stick to them.
@otfl4jah Out of curiosity, for anyone in this thread, is there something doodle owners can do to make grooming them less work?
I don’t own one, I have Klee Kai’s, my brother does though and I think he takes him to groom every 3-4 months. He also keeps his fur relatively short because apparently he gets hot really easy. Is it just something inherent in the breed that makes grooming a pain?
I don’t own one, I have Klee Kai’s, my brother does though and I think he takes him to groom every 3-4 months. He also keeps his fur relatively short because apparently he gets hot really easy. Is it just something inherent in the breed that makes grooming a pain?
@trivox Hi! For me, the struggle is the dematting process and when owners like their doodle left as long as possible.
Most of my doodles come in matted/needing a serious brush out. Their hair is seriously prone to matting and tangles and if not brushed regularly, the brush out process for the groomer is long and strenuous.
It takes a long time to fluff out a big hairy beast. lol Hope that helps!
Most of my doodles come in matted/needing a serious brush out. Their hair is seriously prone to matting and tangles and if not brushed regularly, the brush out process for the groomer is long and strenuous.
It takes a long time to fluff out a big hairy beast. lol Hope that helps!
primsroses
New member
@trivox most people bring them in matted, say they “brush them,” but they only brush the top of the coat. not down to the skin. or just use a brush and not a comb to tackle mats that might’ve been skimmed over by the brush. had a lady today who said her dog was “frizzy.” ma’am, your dog needs to be shaved down. on top of that, they don’t come in regularly, and therefore are not desensitized to equipment. parents don’t train them at home when they are not at the salon (running electric toothbrushes over their body, legs, feet, holding their chin, using hair dryer at home, etc). and when their dog reacts to doing the work they should be doing at home, they stop, and the dog just assumes they can then get away with it. do you stop when your child tells you they don’t want their hair brushed or to take a bath or to do something they don’t really like much? like homework per se? we can only do so much when a dog comes in every few months. we see them once, they see them every day. but people just expect us to work magic on their dog that isn’t desensitized. i do have a lot of clients that will take their dog short and then wait 6-8 weeks, but i wouldn’t push 3 to 4 months. they also are trained enough and did their homework at the beginning stages of puppyhood so the dog is more comfortable with the grooming process for the rest of their life. breeders will also not tell owners their dog needs to come in honestly soon as they bring them home. some have said they need to wait a year, or even 6 months. and that sets their dog up for failure for the rest of their life basically. and finally, these breeds that are being mixed with poodles are extremely high energy, need lots and lots of training, and are honestly unethical to breed. a german shepherd and a poodle? like talk about a recipe for disaster. but money and status talks i guess! as for me, i love my pit mix from the shelter, who would’ve been euthanized anyways if i didn’t save her. yes, doodles make us good money, but fuck. i don’t wanna see a bernadoodle on my schedule ever.
@reeniee Yeah, I know for a fact that the person my brother got the dog from advertised the breed as low maintenance (and also smaller than he ended up being). My brother loves the dog though, so he easily accepted having to take him to the groomers regularly. I’ll ask him if he’s willing to take him in more often though, and I’ll tell him about those tricks to desensitize his pup at home.
thewingsoftruth
New member
tippymoondawg
New member
@thewingsoftruth Doodle pups are typically sold as "labradoodles, goldendoodles, Aussiedoodles, Bernadoodle and so on.
By this I mean the pups are Lab x Poodle, Golden x Poodle, Aussie x Poodle, BMD x Poodle.
But there's no oversight with doodle/designer dog breeders. No one is going to check if the "poodle" half is really a 100% poodle. Or if the Aussie is really 100% Aussie. IMHO, many doodle/designer breeders have a "eh, close enough" attitude towards breeding stock.
On the doggydna subreddit, there's been a number of doodles tested and, despite what the breeder told them, they are often not 50-50 crossbreds but can have a handful (or more) of breeds in them.
I think this can be more common with Bernadoodles. BMD are expensive and the breed has serious health issues. Using a purebred BMD for breeding will cost money and there's a chance that it'll die too early and the breeder "won't get their money's worth". Besides the majority of doodle puppy buyers will swallow whatever the breeder tells them. If the breeder tells them that their roly-poly pudgy puppy is a bernadoodle, then it's a bernadoodle.
Anyway, I think it's possible to make some basic predictions for a Labradoodle puppy, when the parents really are a purebred Lab and a purebred poodle. But since many doodles are a little more mixy than their breeders claim, it's harder to predict anything.
By this I mean the pups are Lab x Poodle, Golden x Poodle, Aussie x Poodle, BMD x Poodle.
But there's no oversight with doodle/designer dog breeders. No one is going to check if the "poodle" half is really a 100% poodle. Or if the Aussie is really 100% Aussie. IMHO, many doodle/designer breeders have a "eh, close enough" attitude towards breeding stock.
On the doggydna subreddit, there's been a number of doodles tested and, despite what the breeder told them, they are often not 50-50 crossbreds but can have a handful (or more) of breeds in them.
I think this can be more common with Bernadoodles. BMD are expensive and the breed has serious health issues. Using a purebred BMD for breeding will cost money and there's a chance that it'll die too early and the breeder "won't get their money's worth". Besides the majority of doodle puppy buyers will swallow whatever the breeder tells them. If the breeder tells them that their roly-poly pudgy puppy is a bernadoodle, then it's a bernadoodle.
Anyway, I think it's possible to make some basic predictions for a Labradoodle puppy, when the parents really are a purebred Lab and a purebred poodle. But since many doodles are a little more mixy than their breeders claim, it's harder to predict anything.
@tippymoondawg There are so many merle Bernadoodles walking around, like where do you guys think that merle gene came from? Not a Berner or a Poodle!
Berners in general have skyrocketed in popularity - I know a few people who have gotten them because there is a fairly local BYB who churns them out. I can’t imagine getting one from a breeder who isn’t meticulous with their lines, it’s just asking to lose one to cancer too young. But people don’t research, and maybe some don’t care.
Berners in general have skyrocketed in popularity - I know a few people who have gotten them because there is a fairly local BYB who churns them out. I can’t imagine getting one from a breeder who isn’t meticulous with their lines, it’s just asking to lose one to cancer too young. But people don’t research, and maybe some don’t care.
tippymoondawg
New member
@childman
Merle has cropped up in many breeds that never had it before. Gosh, golly gee. Amazing how this happens when merle has gotten so popular.
Some breeders explain this by saying it's always been there and was hidden. I remember one breeder's website had some old splotchy photos of Pit Bulls from the turn of the century as proof.
Or alternately they claim it's a spontaneous mutation. How remarkable it's happened in so many breeds. (Spontaneous mutation my ass).
The trouble is that after a few generations, it's impossible to determine where the merle came from. And after enough generations of breeding a, for example, merle pug to purebred pugs, it'll come back as a purebred or darn close to purebred pug.
BTW and IMHO, merle doesn't look great on dogs with big round eyes like Pugs or Frenchies. I really dislike it in Cockers. A defining trait for Cockers is their dark brown eyes giving them a sweetly soulful expression. Blue eyed Cockers look demented.
I call Berners a "heartbreak breed" in that widespread health issues means that getting one is a gamble and that; if the dog loses the gamble, it's heartache for everyone. Cancer is a nasty way to die and I know of a sweet, vibrant Berner who died of it at age 2.5. Two and a half years old!
For too many doodle breeders, their only health concern regarding their breeding stock is if they have working gonads.
like where do you guys think that merle gene came from?
Merle has cropped up in many breeds that never had it before. Gosh, golly gee. Amazing how this happens when merle has gotten so popular.
Some breeders explain this by saying it's always been there and was hidden. I remember one breeder's website had some old splotchy photos of Pit Bulls from the turn of the century as proof.
Or alternately they claim it's a spontaneous mutation. How remarkable it's happened in so many breeds. (Spontaneous mutation my ass).
The trouble is that after a few generations, it's impossible to determine where the merle came from. And after enough generations of breeding a, for example, merle pug to purebred pugs, it'll come back as a purebred or darn close to purebred pug.
BTW and IMHO, merle doesn't look great on dogs with big round eyes like Pugs or Frenchies. I really dislike it in Cockers. A defining trait for Cockers is their dark brown eyes giving them a sweetly soulful expression. Blue eyed Cockers look demented.
I can’t imagine getting one from a breeder who isn’t meticulous with their lines, it’s just asking to lose one to cancer too young.
I call Berners a "heartbreak breed" in that widespread health issues means that getting one is a gamble and that; if the dog loses the gamble, it's heartache for everyone. Cancer is a nasty way to die and I know of a sweet, vibrant Berner who died of it at age 2.5. Two and a half years old!
For too many doodle breeders, their only health concern regarding their breeding stock is if they have working gonads.
@tippymoondawg Merle cockers absolutely kill me. Yes, they look bad. Not just in coloring or the eyes but obviously they're poorly bred so their structure just looks really off too, most of the time.
But cockers also come in roan, which is not the same as merle but to the layperson, IMO, it's really just as pretty and a lot of people can't tell them apart. I know American Cockers aren't typically roan but I'd think it would be better for that to start cropping up than for merle to become more prevalent (though merle is easier to breed for, so no brainer why they're doing it). But I've even seen English Cockers being bred as merle, when you could just get a roan without much more effort.
But cockers also come in roan, which is not the same as merle but to the layperson, IMO, it's really just as pretty and a lot of people can't tell them apart. I know American Cockers aren't typically roan but I'd think it would be better for that to start cropping up than for merle to become more prevalent (though merle is easier to breed for, so no brainer why they're doing it). But I've even seen English Cockers being bred as merle, when you could just get a roan without much more effort.
tippymoondawg
New member
@childman You're right in that a lot of people can't tell the difference between roan & merle. There's clear distinctions between the two and once one knows them, IMHO, they are very obvious.
I find roan to be very pretty and think it just looks right with Cockers. It's elegant with subtle density & shading and melds well with the Cocker's hallmark sweet soft expression.
As a long time collie person, I enjoy a dramatic merle with big patching. Blue eyes on a collie can make them look sarcastic (Spotty the smoothie giving her "yes, please, tell me more about car insurance" look) but also sweet. Blue eyed cockers on the other hand . . .
I find roan to be very pretty and think it just looks right with Cockers. It's elegant with subtle density & shading and melds well with the Cocker's hallmark sweet soft expression.
As a long time collie person, I enjoy a dramatic merle with big patching. Blue eyes on a collie can make them look sarcastic (Spotty the smoothie giving her "yes, please, tell me more about car insurance" look) but also sweet. Blue eyed cockers on the other hand . . .
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