Proper use of a prong collar

[noahsk]

Someone at the dog park lent me their prong collar to see if it helps my dog from pulling. My dog still pulls with a martingale collar and freedom harness.

Do you have any advice/tips/considerations on its proper use on a 2 y.o. Rottweiller Huskey Mix (neutered male)?

The long story (for those who want it). My hubby and I adopted a 1 y.o. "shy kelpie lab" at a herding rescue a year ago. The rescue had him since he was 7 m.o. and when he was almost a year old he had been adopted out for a week and returned after he destroyed his new dog bed + couldn't handle being around horses. He had been in the rescue for a few days before my hubby and I adopted him.

IDK what happened during the time he was adopted the first time but he turned out to be fearful submissive reactive. He would not eat food (chicken/hotdog) in front of us. He would be afraid anytime we moved or held something in our hands and if I left for work he would run around the house until he hit his head and peed himself and my wfh hubby would have to clean it up. Etc. Etc.

He has come a long way and luckily we got him on trazodone for a few months to help control his anxiety as he learnt to trust us. We also got him DNA tested cause he was a really weird dog but a normal rottweiller husky.

But one of his problematic behaviors is he loves to run and chase which leads him to pull. He gets two walks a day (1-6 miles total) and we try to get him to a dog park every other day.

But I have chronic back pain so any amount of pulling and exacerbate or cause flare-ups. We spent $400 on an online group class with a behavioral trainer. It helped but we don't have the extra funds for more group or one-on-one training.

So a gentleman offered to lend me his prong collar to see it helps and if it did, I could get our own.

So yeah, any tips on using a prong collar on a puller 65 lb Rottweiller Husky that loves sprinting after squirrels, crows and lizards?

 

[renie]

@noahsk You got prong feedback- but here’s the thing. It’s easy to know what you don’t want the dog to do (pull). What you need to teach the dog is what you DO want him to do. I like touch because it’s easy and engaging (you can find all kinds of YouTube videos on how to train it). Start in the house, then in the yard until eventually the dog is acting like a fool. You say “touch!” and hold your hand out- he should come right back and touch your hand (putting him in an ideal spot to both get a treat and start to learn heel). If he decides not to- apply some leash pressure, as soon as he turns the pressure is off he comes and touches and gets his treat. Telling a dog (or a person for that matter) what you want them to do is much more effective than just telling them what you don’t want.

 

[warriorforchrist94]

@noahsk I love Tyler Muto’s conversational leash work, any of Tom Davis’s handling videos, and Larry Krohn’s introducing leash pressure. Be aware of how much you are correcting, you want precision (timing, quick snap) over power and pair with a verbal correction. I was able to use a prong collar for just a few walks and transition off with those resources, but with your physical limitations and the mix I know a lot of people use it long term as an in case measure. Preventing the dog from injuring yourself is high priority.

 

[quenton]

@warriorforchrist94 Tom Davis has so many free YouTube videos on prong collar sizing, placement, and PROPER use- including how to introduce leash pressure to your dog. Especially his older stuff.

If you're yanking your dog- you're doing it wrong. The guys mentioned above are incredible resources.

 

[noahsk]

@warriorforchrist94 I was trying Beckman's pop method with a martingale but didn't have much success. (Quick small snap the moment they pull etc)

But I haven't heard of Tyler, Tom or Larry so I will check them out!

Thank you for the recommendation and insight!

 

[warriorforchrist94]

@noahsk Practice in your house and then driveway. You will look silly but who cares. That’s an essential step I always missed (along with lots of rewards) that really made a difference. I never thought that my dog would stop herself from lunging at a squirrel and we had a freaking party when she did. You have to be a better reward than whatever they’re chasing and it takes a lot to be that sometimes.

 

[noahsk]

@warriorforchrist94 We did this for a few weeks without success. BUT it has been months and he trusts us more now.

We'll try this again (maybe hotdogs instead of meat balls) and hopefully get a better response.

 

[sumguy]

@noahsk For dogs with a strong bite a high reward treat is dried chicken. Get the cheapest cut you can find and cut it into slivers. Dry on a low temp In the oven or dehydrator if you have one.

A) it’s a high motivation treat

B) it takes a while to eat because they have to chew it. Why is that good for self-reinforcing behaviours like chasing? Because by the time they’ve swallowed the food the prey has (hopefully) gone.

A prong is a useful tool but don’t be tempted to use it until you’ve watched a lot of YouTube and feel like you really have a grasp of what you’re going to do.

 

[noahsk]

@sumguy Yeah we are planning on studying alot before we try to use the prong collar.

We definitely did before we tried using a martingale.

 

[warriorforchrist94]

@sumguy My dog will not chew and swallow and choke on anything you give her in a highly aroused state but scatter feeding high value treats (beef lung for us) for a big distraction reward works really well for us. Sometimes it’s also a mental reset to outlet the frustration. I didn’t think about doing that in training until I saw Tom Davis use it (I think he called a mentor who recommended it) for a very highly reactive dog.

 

[tom9821]

@noahsk Yeah, Beckman’s method worked well for me but only with using a prong. The prong just gives much clearer communication than any martingale, flat, slip, harness or head halti I’ve used. I used lots of Tom Davis videos for fitting the prong correctly and for teaching leash pressure & other basic skills. Beckman’s method worked for polishing up my dog’s loose leash walking, but I had lots of foundational work with Tom Davis’ & Larry Khron’s methods first.

 

[noahsk]

@tom9821 Good to know ty. Will try to prioritize catching up on Tom and Larry

 

[weiz]

@warriorforchrist94 Cosign both of these trainers (Muto and Krohn on YT). You have to introduce the dog to the prong and let them know what leash pressure means and how they can release that pressure. You will need to start thinking of a prong as a communication tool instead of a punishment tool.

 

[noahsk]

@weiz Will check them out!

We did try to teach our pup leash pressure with a standard collar but that was when we first met him and he was super fearful reactive. So maybe that's why it didn't work then.

Buy ima try teaching him again with a standard collar, martingale and then a prong.

He's the type to keep pulling on a really unruly day (days he really doesn't want to listen to commands) hense we use a harness most days so he doesn't choke himself accelerating to mach speeds.

So I definitely want to take the safest route possible.

 

[radikal]

@noahsk A harness will encourage pulling unless you clip the leash to the front chest ring. Doing so forces the dog off balance when he pulls. A prong is probably a better choice, but when you do use a harness try front clipping.

 

[noahsk]

@radikal Yup, front clipping didn't help either. We tried that for like 1-2 months.

Also, other huskey owners at the dog parks didn't find front clipping effective either.

We are currently using a no pull freedom harness. Doesn't help with the pulling but at least it doesn't choke him when he pulls like a collar or martingale.

 

[radikal]

@noahsk Yeah, sounds like a prong is the best option.

 

[noahsk]

@radikal Yeah but I definitely want to make sure I know how to use it before I try.

 

[radikal]

@noahsk I can't help you much there. I only had to use one for a short period of time on a sensitive but pushy dog. It's good to start with what horse people call a "soft but confident (strong/steady) hand" - using only as much pressure as is needed on a correction, loose leash until the pressure is needed. Try to feel and be very aware of the amount of pressure in your hand as you correct and take good note of the dog's reactions as soon as the pressure starts, loosen exactly when the pull starts to subside. Some dogs might need a small pop after a warning, others might just need softer pressure.

 

[noahsk]

@radikal Kk I'll keep that in mind.

At baseline, our pup with pressure pulls harder. With a pop, no reaction. But reading what you and our commentators say. We have some new ideas that hopefully will work for him.

Random fact with our pup:
He has a thick ass neck. Like his neck is the size of a torso for dogs his weight class and his torso is giant/deep.