[Breeds] Pick me a second dog(Aussie v Cattle dog v Malinois v ???)

[samwan]

Apparently I'm a little wordy. It wouldn't transfer over from the questionnaire for me. Good luck!
Introduction

1) Will this be your first dog? If not, what experience do you have owning/training dogs?

• I currently have a lab/pointer/pit/hell-beast mix. She's very high energy, very smart, moderate drive. She is my first dog and she fell into my lap. She was returned to rescue for being too boisterous with neighborhood kids and trying to kill the cats in their home. I have two cats (well, had, one just passed) and with sloooow careful introduction and a tonnnn of impulse control training. She's absolutely fine with them.
  I got her with the intention of her being my first sports dog. She loves obedience but just gets too stressed going to new places. I've done a ton of work on her with it and she tolerates it but I'm not going to force her to go places she hates when she's happier working on obedience in the yard.
  I want this next one to be a sports prospect though.

2) Do you have a preference for rescuing a dog vs. going through a reputable breeder?

• PUPPY! PUPPY! PUPPY! Strongly prefer a reputable breeder this go.

3) Describe your ideal dog.

• High energy. High Drive. Smart. Biddable. Capable of independence (no separation anxiety). Playful. Fetch! Fetch Disc. Fetch Ball. Fetch everything! Off leash with training. Off switch with training. Crazy. Naughty. Confidently aloof with strangers. Protective is ok. Not a TON of barking.

4) What breeds or types of dogs are you interested in and why?

• I've loved Australian shepherds since I was 16. That was what I was planning on before I got Eden. But now I'm a little concerned about how much coat they have and how much they bark and they may be a little too low drive.

I've become a big fan of Malinois since I've gotten Eden. But worry they might be too much everything.

I also quite like pointers, german shorthairs, vizsla, weims I like em all. They're very similar to Eden But I want something a little bit different from her.

5) What sorts of things would you like to train your dog to do?

• Disc dog. Dock dog. Rally obedience. Tricks. And just general good dog training.

Care Commitments

6) How long do you want to devote to training, playing with, or otherwise interacting with your dog each day?

• Typically 1-2 hours a day. Training is maybe 15 minutes of that.

7) How long can you exercise your dog each day, on average? What sorts of exercise are you planning to give your dog regularly and does that include using a dog park?

• 45 minute minimum. Typically closer to 2 hours. There is a huge 15-20 acre dog park with a creek and trails like 10 minutes from my apartment. We go 3-5 times a week. The other days are hikes at one of the plethora of parks near me. All off leash. Incorporated is fetch and obedience and swimming and playing with other dogs.

Daycare once or twice a week

8) How much regular brushing are you willing to do? Are you open to trimming hair, cleaning ears, or doing other grooming at home? If not, would you be willing to pay a professional to do it regularly?

• Brushing everyday is fine. I love removing undercoat. Ears and nails are cleaned and trimmed by me.

I would consider a coat that requires hand stripping. I will not consider a coat that requires cutting.

Personal Preferences

9) What size dog are you looking for?

• 60 pounds ABSOLUTE max. Prefer 45-55.

10) How much shedding, barking, and slobber can you handle?

• Moderate to high shedding. Slobber ZERO, I mean Eden drools when she's begging but no Beethoven slobber please. Barking? Outside while playing or whatever fine. Inside as little as canine possible. I live in an apartment. I'll do a ton of training and conditioning to noises outside.

Obviously they're living beings and barking happens it's not a huge deal and I live in a dog friendly place. But we had a neighbor who had a german shepherd who was VERY under exercised who barked NON-STOP. That's not ok. A bark or two a day is different.

11) How important is being able to let your dog off-leash in an unfenced area?

• VERY!

Dog Personality and Behavior

12) Do you want a snuggly dog or one that prefers some personal space?

• Snuggles are great.

13) Would you prefer a dog that wants to do its own thing or one that’s more eager-to-please?

• Eager to please.

14) How would you prefer your dog to respond to someone knocking on the door or entering your yard? How would you prefer your dog to greet strangers or visitors?

• Eden is trained to go to her bed on the cue of a knock on the door. This dog will be too. I'd like them to not care at all about strangers. A bit of excitement and happiness is fine as is a bit of wariness and protection. Neither extreme interests me.

15) Are you willing to manage a dog that is aggressive to other dogs?

• No.

16) Are there any other behaviors you can’t deal with or want to avoid?

• Nope

Lifestyle

17) How often and how long will the dog be left alone?

• I work 50 hour weeks. I have one twelve hour shift mandatory, those days are camp days.

18) What are the dog-related preferences of other people in the house and what will be their involvement in caring for the dog?

• The dog is solely my responsibility.

19) Do you have other pets or are you planning on having other pets? What breed or type of animal are they?

• I have a 15 pound cat. He's ok with dogs. Not great, but doesn't run so does ok.

20) Will the dog be interacting with children regularly?

• No.

21) Do you rent or plan to rent in the future? If applicable, what breed or weight restrictions are on your current lease?

• I rent. No weight restriction but my own. No pits, no rotts, no dobes.

22) What city or country do you live in and are you aware of any laws banning certain breeds?

• Philly suburbs.

23) What is the average temperature of a typical summer and winter day where you live?

• Summer 85. Winter 40.

Additional Information and Questions

24) Please provide any additional information you feel may be relevant.

• N/A

25) Feel free to ask any questions below.

• N/A

If you took the time to read all that you're a saint. Please helppp

 

[tippymoondawg]

@samwan

I've loved Australian shepherds since I was 16. That was what I was planning on before I got Eden. But now I'm a little concerned about how much coat they have and how much they bark and they may be a little too low drive.

Low drive? Maybe some conformation lines but there's plenty of performance Aussies out there and they are absolute get-it-done beasts.

 

[samwan]

@tippymoondawg I just see a ton of aussies around that are perfectly content as pets and that my lab mix easily outlasts. I know there are obviously amazing super performing aussies out there but they seem to only be interested in proven performance homes.

 

[sir_cumference]

@samwan I think those are probably bench bred or, more likely, pet/BYB Aussies to be honest. Aussies are super popular with performance people because most of them are drivey and handler-focused. I think with the right breeder you'd easily have a dog that can keep up with a pointer/lab mix!

 

[alexanderrstarreveld]

@samwan I have an Aussie from show lines. We herd sheep, play agility, do rally, nosework, and trick training. I think there is enough drive there. Even within a litter you will have different levels of energy and drive. You just need to tell the breeder what you are looking for.

 

[barbaravaill]

@samwan Can you drill down a bit further on which sports you're most interested in, or would you prefer a breed that's more suited to dabbling?

 

[samwan]

@barbaravaill Disc is my primary sport. Dabble in everything though.

 

[godsgal41]

@samwan Aussies coats are very low maintenance. They shed, but honestly I'd rather deal with aussie shedding than say lab shedding.

They are vocal and tend to be alert barkers. Mine are vocal when playing or when they are excited. They arent mindless barkers and are quiet in the house. But they can be loud. If you'd like a quieter breed, I'd suggest a sporting breed like a working lines golden.

As for drive, I have a moderate drive aussie and a high drive aussie, both show lines. There are some lines that are low drive, but they aren't all and certainly should not be low drive. You'd want to research lines and pick a breeder who has higher drive dogs.

I do rally and OB with my aussies. Although we havent tried dock diving, my younger dog would love it and eagerly leaps off of docks or stumps into the lake.

Sounds like an aussie could be a good fit for you.

My concern would be your long work weeks with a puppy. Are you able to get help for the 1st few months so puppy could be taken out every couple hours?

 

[samwan]

@godsgal41 Yeah. I'm not concerned about the puppy raising aspect. I've been looking more into working line aussies but I'd like to meet the breeder and dogs and everything first. And there's just not many working aussie breeders in the north east that I've been able to find. I might have to sacrifice meeting them in person and just leap of faith it. But that is TERRIFYING to me lol.

 

[godsgal41]

@samwan There's a few really nice versatility breeders around. There's actually a couple nice breeders that should be reasonably close to you.

 

[samwan]

@godsgal41 I know there's one in NJ who is AMAZING, does puppy culture and the whole nine, but they cost like 3500 dollars. Yeah. No puppy is worth that (in my eyes). I'm happy to pay up to 1500 dollars. If you know anyone nearish me that should be having puppies late fall 2017 early spring 2018 please feel free to let me know!!

 

[godsgal41]

@samwan Airborne should be in your area.

Would someone like to explain why this breeder rec was downvoted? What's wrong with this breeder?

 

[samwan]

@godsgal41 Yesssss. If you think of anymore send them my way!

 

[godsgal41]

@samwan She's probably my 1st pick for more of a performance aussie in your area. Shadomoon has some nice dogs as well and a few performance titles on dogs she's bred, but is maybe a bit less performance-y than airborne. She currently has a litter that is a few weeks old.

 

[samwan]

@godsgal41 I take it back. Don't tell me that!!! I just had to put my cat down and burnt through most of my savings trying to save him. So I'll need a few months before I'm ready to spend on a pup.

 

[godsgal41]

@samwan Aww sorry about your kitty. The pups are quite likely spoken for already. But maybe wait to talk to her for a few weeks so you aren't tempted

 

[beth505]

@samwan I think a nice high drive aussie could be a great match!

My experience is that working belgians do everything with 150% of their energy.

They see a tug, they dont just bite it, their life is to get that toy as fast as possible, whether your body, hand, other dog, etc is in the way.

And they will fight for that toy.

Ask them to sit and stay while you work? They will stare at you with 100% focus for hours.

They want to run towards you? Well, will likely run into you and use you to stop.

So I find this a lot of training with the breed, training them to control their impulses and drive, because they have so much.

Incredibly fun to train, but not easy to train.

They can be challenging.

I also suggest perhaps a working line labrador or border collie?

Both breeds have the drive to go all day.

With labs, finding a good working lab would be important, mine is quite serious when it comes to his work.

 

[samwan]

@beth505 Border collies are a bit too soft for my taste. And weird. Idk I love them when someone else is dealing with them but I just don't think it's for me. Also they tend not to get along with Eden's play style.

I keep considering a pure working lab but like bad labs leave such a lasting impression. Also it'd have to be a light yellow like Eden so they match. Any breeder recs?

 

[beth505]

@samwan I dont live in the USA unfortunately, the ones I like in the USA are Blackfoot, and TK Hot, and no clue is they are close to you or not.

Labs are so overbred, a nice lab is a brilliant dog

Working labs to me are like an entirely different breed altogether!

 

[bskicrash1]

@samwan Long time lurker, first time poster.

You sound like a good candidate for an Aussie. For disc work, you may find difficulty in teaching the dog to hold the disc at first but with persistence, there should be no problem. I'd recommend getting in contact with Jen and Jeff at Furrari Aussies as they've competed heavily in disc competition and could give you some great insight into selecting a puppy and training. Their dogs come from a very dear friend of mine and share a good number of relatives to my own dogs. You'll find a high level of biddability and intelligence and structural integrity.

As others said, Aussies have some draw backs but you'll find most draw backs are connected to a lack of mental and physical exercise. Things like boredom barking and separation anxiety can crop up, but you sound like you will have the training and exercise under control.

Coat can vary by line. Some of the lines heavily invested in conformation have selected for a big open coat that is not correct. A moderate tight fitting coat is good for a working dog. A bath and air force dryer can make a dog look fluffier than it is, so get your hands on some dogs to feel what's under there. Looks are deceiving!!! Also if you castrate your dog, that can change the coat. So there are a number of factors at play. In the worst case scenario, you can thin out the undercoat a couple of times a year. The coat shouldn't be too bad.

Start looking for a mentor in sports conditioning and canine rehabilitation as you prepare for a puppy. You will want to know how to safely condition and train your puppy ahead of time so you aren't trying to learn as you go. With all respect, sometimes people new to disc work or agility go overboard too quickly and cause an injury. Train yourself before you train your dog!