Why I chose to use an e collar and my experience / results

[tiavina]

@jasdksdc My rescued reactive heeler would have been BE without ecollars. Now random people praise the dog.

 

[coffeedrinker]

@jasdksdc Which were your favorite videos about introducing it? I’m considering doing it similarly for a similar situation, with a dog who already has 98% recall but I want to proof out that final 2% for those weird situations

 

[jasdksdc]

@coffeedrinker I binged watched everything robert cabral, tom davis and larry krohn had on e collars. Not just the tutorials and demonstrations but also the psychology behind it as well to get a deep understanding of how the dog thinks and reacts.

Yeah good luck - those 2% weird situartions rarely happen but they eventually do when you least expect it!

 

[jan800]

@coffeedrinker Not OP, but Tyler Muto has a good online course, and Shield K9 (which is the one I used.)

 

[dave75225]

@coffeedrinker Shield K9 has a lot of great videos on dog psychology and application of tools.

and Tom Davis, Will Atherton are great for “normal” dog owners (those who aren’t training incredibly high drive working line attack dogs, lol)

 

[jwb7111]

@jasdksdc Same with my working line Giant Schnauzers. It’s a tool, use it. It’s only evil if used incorrectly by untrained people. There are no untrainable dogs, only untrained people.

Also, if it works for you and your pup, who the heck cares about other people?

 

[nathanbmajor7]

@jasdksdc I also felt like my dog was missing out by not being able to run off leash. After incidents where she chased a herd of elk and almost got run down by one of the cows, and then chased a coyote and almost ran across a very busy road, I was too paranoid to let her off leash until I bought the e-collar.

Her prey drive is never going away, she'll chase anything sized chipmunk to moose (except cats cuz I drilled that into her from pupphood). She's my first dog that needed the e-collar, but it has vastly improved her life.

 

[mew]

@jasdksdc This is great to hear and I'm glad more people are coming out with these positive stories to balance out the negative ones. If I didn't use an e-collar on my husky he would never be able to be off leash and he wouldn't have the fulfilling happy life he lives today (it's also saved his life on more than one occasion).

Even other people with their dogs "off leash" are observably nervous about it. They don't let their dog stray more than 50 ft away and have to be playing a super engaging game because they know that their dogs recall is inconsistent but they risk it anyway. My husky is always hundreds of yards away, being a dog. I don't have to be nervous because I know when I call him back he comes.

 

[sarahtoo]

@jasdksdc The force free brigade hate them and put out tonnes of misinformation about them. Used right their is nothing bad at all about them and they give many dogs the sort of freedom they'd never be allowed otherwise. Show mine the e collar and she runs over excited to have it on. Get the harness out thats supposed to be the kindest way to walk them and she runs away.

In the UK they are banned in Wales and livestock attacks are so frequent here, 4 times as many dogs get shot as across the border for livestock worrying. England set to ban them soon but a lot of trainers and owners pushed back and its been delayed for further consultation at least.

 

[jasdksdc]

@sarahtoo Funnily enough mine also runs from the harness - she hates it. They really are so funny

 

[joannsak]

@sarahtoo 2/3 of my dogs like the ecollar way better than a harness.

 

[carlea]

@jasdksdc Man I love this so much! I have a Dachshund and if you've ever met one, you know how stubborn they can be. I've always been intrigued by the ECollar so I watched countless videos before I even adopted my dog. Anyways, I have been training him with it and the freedom this little dog has is great for the both of us. I feel okay letting him roam free knowing that I have control if he decides to do something he shouldn't. He's a well behaved dog and I blame it all on the training and ECollar. Just last week I had him stay on his bed when we had older unexpected visitors come over. He didn't even have the collar on and stayed on the bed the whole time they were here. It's clear to him what he can and can't get away with. Great job! You're doing a great thing for yourself and your dog.

 

[knarf11]

@jasdksdc What brand do you get out of curiosity?

 

[jasdksdc]

@knarf11 Sportdog 425

 

[ryesenova]

@jasdksdc You should edit your post to emphasize the exact ecollar you use.

There are so many ads on Amazon for shitty ecollars, and it really is the brand and build quality that matters. Not all ecollars are the same.

Casual readers will not get that information from your post.

 

[deezy]

@jasdksdc Since you are asking for opinions I feel like I should be able to share mine as well.

Dogs often don’t vocalize or show it when they have pain or are scared. Suppose that an e-collar did not hurt or feel unpleasant and it just scared dogs into obeying, is that something you should be proud of? The underlying behavior of wanting to bolt of to other dogs is not something that can be magically cured in a few training sessions over a couple of days.

The want is definitely still there, but overridden by the e-collar.

Think about it, if the e-collor did not hurt, feel unpleasant or had any other strong effect on a dog why would your dog show such sudden change in behaviour? Saying that an e-collor does not hurt or scare dogs is just wishful thinking for owners. There is no way to know for sure. People then go to justify using it by saying that it’s not damazing when “used right.” How do you know when you use it right? Watch a few Youtube videos and consider yourself a pro?

A lot of people actually know deep down that e-collars are not animal friendly, or else they would not come looking for confirmation on Reddit.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@deezy Thanks for sharing!

First of all, an ecollar is a tactile stim, so there are people who train it as a recall cue with positive reinforcement.

Secondly, I personally believe ecollars are annoying or uncomfortable, not painful, but even if they were painful, I’m okay with that. I believe my dog would rather get an hour long walk off leash with 2 seconds of discomfort/pain, than have to stay on leash the whole time.

My dogs behavior hasn’t changed. He is just as happy and excited on walks as ever, but now he has more freedom.

 

[talkthecross]

@jasdksdc Glad to hear it worked out well for you.

Have had very similar experiences with my 2yo APBT rescue, and currently using a short lead and a prong collar everywhere we go. Tried doing some off leash training and her recall is pretty good but not perfect and unfortunately that's all it takes is one dog who's a little too interested in her to set her off.

We went from a slip-lead/martingale, to a head collar, to a prong; and they've all had their pros and cons. I can handle her pretty well on a prong but my wife is much smaller and it can be difficult for her if the dog lunges and she's not ready. We've been thinking to try an e-collar next.

I have also had a similar experience, with my Herm & Sprenger collar and the leash popping off after a random shake, twice because the hook on the collar is so flat that it can get in between the clasp of the leash at just the right angle and force it open. My wife really liked our old leash but I forced her to change it out for something with a much heavier duty clasp on it because if that happened to her when I wasn't around and another dog was then it's gonna be really bad.

 

[natsu]

@jasdksdc I see a point that if you want to allow your dog off lead, you need a recall method. And in some places, off leash is allowed with an ecollar. I don't think walking off lead is safe in city environments. E collars can be used in a painful manner. The LIMA argument is that stim is aversive. You called your dog to come and applied the stim as r-, meaning the aversive stimulus was removed when the dog arrived at your feet. You're using the tone on the collar. now, but she still remembers that the stim is the alternative and that you will play an annoying tone until she comes.

I've watched videos where a dog shows obvious signs of stress. The trainer wanted the dog to keep his head down on his paws but never taught this as a command with a different word to distinguish regular body down head up from body & head down. She just started stimmimg the dog.. The dog freaked out, tried to back away, licked his nose, pinned his ears wide, and furrowed his brow before she clarified. She then upped the ante, adding distractions. An r+ trainer would have made sure the dog understood what was expected with a clear command and rewards before adding distractions. I don't see how the ecollar was necessary on that. I feel like it was confusing and abusive, even if she praised the dog in between shocks.

Your instructions were clear to the dog and I feel like you used it appropriately, but it's still an aversive tool.

60 years ago people used whistles to recall their dogs from a distance or whistle in a pattern to mean different commands for herding or hunting. The whistles can be heard over long distances. So, I would whistle train with treats & praise, and eventually transition to praise. (I currently work with shelter dogs, and I use only r+ LIMA. My training takes longer, but I'm not in a rush.) I also don't consider off lead to be to only way to let a dog be a dog. I had a multilevel back yard with a pool and my springer & I had lots of fun.

How is this forum."open" dog training when r+ suggestions are downvoted?

 

[nobodyuknow]

@natsu Imagine, though, that your dog gets out of the house or yard, and they're sprinting toward traffic. Or they are going after another dog. An e-collar with proper training can reinforce training so that you can be more certain that they would respond to your command.

Edit to add: without the proper foundation training, the e-collar is an ineffective tool in best case, and cruel in the worst. They HAVE to understand what is expected of them. The person who was using it to TEACH a command was, frankly, doing it incorrectly.