[rant] It doesn’t matter how friendly you think your dog is, if you can’t recall it then it belongs on a leash

[fgarridogalvan]

It doesn’t matter how friendly your dog is, if you can’t recall it then don’t let it off leash

This is sort of just a vent. I took my 1yo border collie X kelpie to the river today for a swim, and she had a lovely time until a young Dalmatian came rushing up to her wanting to play. It was clearly a friendly dog, but my pup has become very reactive to new dogs after being attacked several times now. She won’t approach other dogs and hates it when other dogs run up to her. We’re working on it and she stays on leash when around dogs at all times, even though her recall is actually great.

I hate looking like a bad owner because my dog is pulling and snarling at a puppy that just won’t leave mine alone. The owner was unable to recall her dog and it just went bounding around the river annoying everyone else there. Please, PLEASE, respect that not all of us have dogs with lovely easy going temperaments and no trauma. Reactive dogs deserve to go outside and have a nice time when owners can create safe conditions, but if your dog ignores another dog’s attempts to signal that they don’t want to play and then won’t return to you when called, it doesn’t belong off leash.

Edit: I got a notification for a comment that seems to have been removed before I could read it, talking about ‘blame shifting’. I just want to emphasise that I’m not talking about a public off-leash dog park here, in which a dog rushing up to another dog at high speed is just what happens and what my dog is prepared for when she’s in that environment. This was a river where we had set up and taken our dog out to a quiet spot for a swim. I of course don’t go parading my reactive dog around in spaces where I think she’s likely to have this issue keep coming up. I’m trying to counter condition her responses and for that I need to go into a range of environments with her and support positive interactions and reactions. I and her trainer spend so, so much time working on her responses and behaviours because on several occasions people have not taken responsibility for their animals and my dog was attacked at random by charging dogs. I’m the one who has to deal with the result of other owners’ negligence, and I feel like relying on the good nature of your dog and the assumption that other dogs will always respond well to rude behaviour (charging up, however playfully, is rude, especially when the dog is on leash and can’t run away) is lazy and irresponsible ownership. You need to be watching your dog when it’s off leash at all times, and you need to ensure that it approaches in a respectful way, and if you’re not in an environment in which off leash play is expected then get the consent of the owner for play. I don’t see how that is blame shifting.

Edit 2: Just to be clear, my dog was in a harness and leash, even though she has great recall and I’ve trained her not to approach other dogs. Since she was last attacked she is always on leash around other dogs.

Edit 3: Thank you for all of the kindness and support on this thread. I posted in a moment of frustration. Our journey with Mirri has been difficult - we love her desperately and have massively adjusted our lives after we were asked to adopt her around this time last year. I’m probably overly emotional because her gotcha-day is coming up very soon. For anyone who thinks I’m holding ridiculous standards, not raising my dog properly, or that my dog is “damaged” - she was from an accidental farm litter that was left behind when the family had to flee after their property was lost in last year’s NSW bushfires. She wasn’t weaned and spends about two hours every day suckling and crying whenever someone leaves a room. She was recently bitten on the face by a dog I was told was friendly. It’s hard work but I love her so much, and I’ve put my life on hold to give her the most support I can. She is truly getting the best, but these things take time. Please, be patient with reactive dogs and their owners. We’re trying to give our pets what we can.

 

[newchristianbooks]

@fgarridogalvan Totally agree, I have a nearly 2 year old border collie, she is the sweetest thing, but if she dosnt want to come back she wont. I dont want to put her in a dangerous situation with another dog but also dont want to make another owner scared/uncomfortable if she approaches their dog and they dont want her near them. It's just respect.

 

[fgarridogalvan]

@newchristianbooks Really early on I worked on teaching Mirri not to run up to other dogs (this was before she was reactive) by letting her approach whatever she wanted to have a look at and then stopping her before she got too close and calling her back to me, and then transferring that when she encountered dogs. I didn’t think it would work honestly but she took to it really well and now she won’t run up to a dog. But I think that kind of backfired because she’s so offended if another dog rushes up to her! Collies are so complex and stubborn. The best kind of dog in the world (IMO) but so so much work

 

[newchristianbooks]

@fgarridogalvan OMG so much work. Took mine 2 minutes to learn to sit but to this day she REFUSES to drop. She knows what I want, she'll do it once for a treat and then ignores me. Matilda will gently approach other dogs and is cautious when there are two but her recall is atrocious sometimes. I keep her on the lead anywhere there is cars or dogs that I dont know. We go to the same few parks so that helps with socialization but she is nippy with french Bulldogs so I always try and keep her away from them and talk to the owners if their dog wont leave her alone. I guess it's like humans, we don't like everyone and we don't like when annoying people are in our space.

 

[fgarridogalvan]

@newchristianbooks Isn’t it crazy how the just have these issues with certain breeds? Mirri hates greyhounds and black labs

 

[papucho]

@fgarridogalvan It would be great to be able to understand the dogs mind at a far greater level, we could understand why they seem to have grudges towards particular breeds. My doodle will always bark at collies and running dogs, we rescued him at 10 months and he's done it ever since then.

 

[richpiepho]

@fgarridogalvan I worked with UPS this last holiday season and was very surprised with the amount of safety guidelines and videos about dog biting. The number one thing they talked about was “just because the owner says the dog is friendly does not mean it you can trust the dog”. By the end of my first week there were 5 dog bites in our center. As the weeks went on there were many more.

 

[agear69]

@richpiepho I couldn't imagine letting my dog be in a position where she might bite someone just trying to do their job. That's just irresponsible and will cause problems for me and my dog. Why even risk it? My dog is the friendliest thing I've ever seen but I still wouldn't let her just walk up to a stranger

 

[muthuijeph]

@richpiepho I think the UPS driver would be the only person (theoretically) at risk from my dog. He’s fine with the postal carrier and FedEx, but goes ballistic when he sees that brown truck - or hears it even if he’s in the basement where he can’t see it. No worries since he stays confined or on leash, but I don’t know why he hates the Brown so much!

 

[fgarridogalvan]

@peterpalms 100%, this dog was just running around wherever it pleased. It makes me so stressed because that kind of inattention is what gets dogs injured so often and easily.

 

[mamabear0213]

@fgarridogalvan Can I ask you all all the others with reactive dogs your thoughts re this scenario:

Beach walk 2 miles out, 2 miles back, flat open sand for 75 yards that comes up to a 50 foot cliff. Well known local off leash dog beach with easily 50 dogs encountered along the 2 miles out on the weekend. Maybe 5 dogs on weekdays per the 2 miles. I've been walking here for maybe 5 years with my guys and we've never encountered aggressive dogs, rude socially ignorant yes, but not assholes, well maybe 1 black GSD over the 5 years. I do know my nonverbal canine communication - Turid Ruggas calming signals, Brenda Aloff picture book, Suzanne Clothier seminars, Sarah Kalnajs Secret Language of Dogs video, Karen Pryor clicker training camps, membership in closed FB groups of trainers practising reading body language in various videos, etc. So I know my stuff and can read a dog at a distance.

We're working on the new rescue we adopted and her recall is 100% outdoors without distractions and, 95% with a dog at 50 yards that she sees, and 95% with dogs close by if I start the recall 25-50 yards out and continue to release and recall repeatedly. She's not yet at 100% if I don't start the recall early. She is incredibly savvy around dogs - was in a hoarder/breeder scenario with 10 dogs in 1 room the first 18 months of her life. She also, on the first day at the rescue, jumped up on their dog bed with 5 other terriers and didn't elicit any conflict, some surprised looks from the other dogs at her audacity, but she's sooo good with projecting nonthreatening language that they didn't leave or grumble. Blows my mind actually.

So the question is - would you walk your pup in an environment like that and still expect us that want to polish the recall to have 100%? Part of the reason we take her there is for the non-training free play socialization in a non-dog park environment. I could be vigilant and recall her starting at 50 yards out, but on weekends that would be pretty much the entire 2 hours of the walk.

 

[bojan]

@mamabear0213 I know that I personally wouldn't be taking my dog to walk on a beach if there's an actual dog park on the beach. I also personally don't walk my dog anywhere where it's legal to have a dog off leash (which honestly is everywhere here, so it's frankly useless because no one pays attention)

But if this is a mixed use area where it also is ok to have dogs off leash, I still think that all dogs need to have a good enough recall that they will not approach other dogs until you, the human, have been able to communicate in some manner to the other human and both are ok with the dogs meeting. I don't care how socially savvy your dog is. (I do love that she is! But as someone who has no clue what your education level is or what your dog's savvyness is, I would need to proceed as if every dog has no social skills at all.)

If this is, in fact, a specific dog park, then the rules are different - dog parks imply that all dogs are ok with meeting all the other dogs in the park.

 

[mamabear0213]

@bojan The sad thing is in the San Francisco Bay area the dog parks get plenty of dogs that shouldn't be around other dogs and the owners are clueless. We don't generally go to fenced in dog parks.

 

[hollan]

@mamabear0213 2 miles is 3.22 km

 

[chosenone274]

@mamabear0213 My 13month BC's recall is 100% with no other distractions around, and about 95% with distractions. I waited to take her to the off-leash beaches until I was sure she wouldn't run away. That was at about 8 months.

To me, I think all dogs should be ON-leash in public, regardless of local laws. It's the polite, safe, and considerate thing to do with regards to other people that aren't setting out to be around dogs - whether they also have a dog or not. But once you get into a "dog park" situation, be it a beach, or a park, then the owners must ALWAYS MAINTAIN CONTROL of their dogs. That means to not be so far away that if your dog starts attacking another dog or a human, then you need to be able to IMMEDIATELY gain physical control of your dog.

My dog isn't anti-social, but she doesn't care to frolic/play with other dogs. As a BC, she has a JOB, and that job is to put 110% concentration and effort into getting her ball. Or her frisbee. If another dog comes up to her she say "hey", take a sniff, and get back to business. If that other dog then thinks they have permission to play, roughhouse, get aggressive, or just not let her get back to her duties, then she will snap at their face and come over to me and sit. But honestly, the owners of the other dogs need to be attentive at ALL times and read the situation and if their dog is annoying a dog that clearly doesn't want it, then THAT OWNER needs to take responsibility and redirect their dog's attention. It shouldn't get to the point that my dog have to say "holy fuck, Skippy, enough!", and then have to snap back.

I realize this is how dogs communicate. But humans also communicate in the same way. But if you were in my face and wouldn't leave and started pushing me around, and then I had to punch you in the face so you get the hint that you aren't welcome, then nobody would say about either of us that "It's okay, those are just humans being humans! That annoying one will learn if he gets punched enough!" Yet too many dog owners resort to "They're just dogs being dogs!" to excuse both their dog's bad behavior AND the owner's lack of responsibilty and control.

When your dog is off-leash, 100% PERFECT recall could be considered "control of your dog". I don't care that your RECALL is perfect, I only care that YOU CONTROL YOUR DOG so it doesn't harm MY dog, either physically,mentally, or emotionally.

It takes very little effort to make dog time safe and fun for everyone. And if your dog is habitually bad with other dogs, then keep it away until you have properly trained it.

 

[nikti21]

@fgarridogalvan Dogs running free get them injured? I guess you’ve never been to a farm, or seen a dog outside your apartment for that matter. I’m starting to understand why your dog is “reactive”.

 

[fgarridogalvan]

@nikti21 I used to live on a farm, I don’t live in an apartment, I see dogs every day of my life. I live between Melbourne and greater NSW so I’m very familiar with different environments that have dogs. This was a river right next to the bush with lots of people and at that section, lots of dogs. A dog running free won’t get it injured, but a dog bounding/charging up to multiple other dogs and people at full speed without being monitored can if another dog gives chase.

My dog is reactive because in November a dog bit her on the face when she was drinking from the park water bowl. Don’t be a troll, read my actual post and other comments.

 

[talohs]

@nikti21 Ridiculous, considering plenty of farm dogs are unattended and left to their own devices and reactivity while apartment dogs get attention from owners and tons of socialization from close proximity, and the owners don't have yards to dump their dogs in.... Just saying. Either way, reactivity can come from one incident from an aggressive dog, or a past home, or just from a nervous temperament in general... Your comment only shows your own classist privilege as well as how little you know and understand about dog behavior and psychology.....

 

[undecided00]

@fgarridogalvan I completely agree! I have a Blue Heeler who is very respectful on a leash and is friendly with dogs as long and they're calm and friendly, but she hates when excitable dogs (especially if they're bigger than her) run up to her or try to jump on her and she can react aggressively because she gets nervous and scared.

One time I was walking her at night just around my house and a neighbor had his large pit mix off leash. It charged up to us and scared both me and the dog because it just bolted out of the dark at us. The owner yelled "don't worry she's friendly!" And the dogs stopped, sniffed noses while bristling and for a sec I thought it would be okay as they just sniffed then suddenly they started fighting.

The guy had to run over and we were both able to grab and separate our dogs. Luckily no one was bit but I was SO PISSED. Who knows what would have happened! This was not the first time something like this occurred because they let their dog approach us and unfortunately it's made my only worse with this specific situation because now she's expecting a fight.

 

[maldonac]

@fgarridogalvan I think if you can't stop your dog approaching other dogs (even if they do recall after), they should be on a lead around other dogs, full stop.

I'm not confident in that my dog won't approach other dogs and try and play (she's ok if they're far enough away), so she only gets off leash time in areas where I can see 100% if someone is coming. We have a big flat field near me house that is perfect for this.