Please, I beg of you, RESEARCH your dog trainer before just going to the cheapest place or the ‘highest reviewed’ place

@alexm961 Please copy and paste this exact comment into every review platform possible for the place. Im so sorry your pup went through this, hopefully her experience can be a warning that saves the next good boy or girl.
 
@mim4you For the sake of argument, how do you find a reputable trainer if not reviews?

While you've stated what not to do, how do you find one?

There's another one in Texas that is similar to this, the trainer said it was aggression. He's operating again and had no charges.
 
@eront I was interested in dog sports so I went to an AKC trial before I got my puppy. Talked to the people there, some who were trainers themselves, observed how they treated their dog before and after trialing. The trial facility also had their own training program - eventually ended up enrolling in it after talking to the owner and watching him trial his dog. He was so patient, never even raised his voice, and had the total attention of his dog!

I don't regret doing in it this way. Observing the trainer with his dog (or someone else's) is the best way to tell how they'll act with yours.
 
@yazzy I do think this can only really work if a person really understands training.

I did reactive dog pack walks with a trainer and she was really my first exposure to dog training professionally. She used a lot of leash corrections and really encouraged people to yank the leash any time the dog acted up on the leash.

To somebody who doesn't know this is a potential problem, you could see it as fully humane. We get a lot of people who come on these subs who are like "oh, my trainer recommended using a martingale collar for corrections" or "my trainer says I need a shock collar to get my 4 month old dog to stop chasing my cat" and these people legitimately have no real basis to work off of because they don't really know what training should look like.

When TyCal K9 ended up having their footage leaked, they had a lot of people defending it in the sports side of things, specifically within PSA and several popular bitesport decoys, one of whom has his own TV show. So, in all reality, people don't know what good training looks like and when people have authority say it's fine, it's likely you're going to believe it. Of course, TyCal is an extreme, but in all reality, when you send your dog to a board and train you're trusting that person is who you think they are even when they know people aren't watching.
 
@eront What's wrong with a martingale collar? We're fostering a dog from the pound, and they gave him to us with a martingale collar on. The dog pulled so hard, my house mate wasn't able to control him, even with the collar on. Further, he tired me out. So I took him for a walk with a pronged collar on, and he was amazingly obedient.
 
@bdmw3e Martingale collars are solely for preventing escapes. It should not change behavior. If it changes behavior, it's due to discomfort and is positive punishment, which is not a recommended training method due to the risks. Prongs and the use of martingales as a punisher are associated with fear and aggression issues.

They're banned in several places due to the risk of harm and certified professionals and veterinary behaviorists advise them to not be used.
 
@eront So how does one "properly" stop a wild dog from pulling? I'm surprised that prongs would be advised against because they work so well, and if you're using them right, they're not hurting the dog. It's just getting their attention. The dog even gets excited when I pick up the pronged collar because it means he's going for a walk.

Before the pronged collar, he was an absolute mess. He's very strong, full of energy, and wanted to chase everything. He'd just randomly dart in a random direction, yank us this way and that, and choke himself over and over. He put my house mate's back out so it was on me to take him for walks; he would exhaust me and I'm pretty strong. I can understand not needing it with a good, obedient dog. I dunno if it's the breed but he's an Australian Kelpie. We don't have a problem with our dogs, but the foster dog was a maniac.
 
@bdmw3e If they're not hurting or uncomfortable, they wouldn't work. The ends don't justify the means here, and they have not been proven more effective than training, and the discomfort cannot be separated from creating negative associations with external stimuli, which is where the negative effects come in. They're not recommended or advised due to the side effects and the harm they bring to wellbeing.

My 95lb doberman launched himself at cars when I adopted him. I used a two point harness. I'm not much heavier than my dog. I could control him with one hand prior to training.

I've never used a prong with clients nor on any of my reactive shelter dogs, my foster, or the puppy I raised from birth. Two of those dogs were last chance dogs who would have been euthanized if I didn't take them and absolutely were not easy dogs by any means. My doberman actually was the way he was when I got him due to slip lead, ecollar and prong use with his prior owners.

If you're curious, I can show you how I trained loose leash walking without it.
 
@bdmw3e It's not created just for you (sorry!) but it's a copy/paste of a post I've made in the past seeing it is a common skill that many people struggle with. Tagging /@between_winds seeing they expressed interest too:

With loose leash walking there's a number of components.
  • Impulse control
  • Understanding what leash pressure means
  • Handler not allowing bad habits to continue when they happen.
  • The dog has to learn that every bit of instinct that exists while walking does not apply.
It's one of the hardest skills to teach a dog, which is why there exists so many punitive tools for it.

What I would do is get ahold of a two point harness. Balance harness, Two hounds harness, or the 3-in-1 Easy Walk harness for day-to-day management so you can keep control. I used this to keep control of my 95lb doberman until we could build on the foundations.

To teach loose leash walking, start with teaching collar grabs. Basically, hold your hand up and start teaching this by moving your hand towards the collar and once you make contact, a party happens, treats, praise, just general happiness. Once you get to the point your dog will move towards your hand, the party no longer happens when your hand touches, but when you take the collar in your fingers. Once your dog moves to you and you take the collar in your hand/fingers without any issue, then you can start teaching directional instructions with this.

To teach directional cues with collar pressure, you're going to need a loaded clicker. That means your dog understands that click = food.

Once you have the loaded clicker, use your collar grab and add the tiniest bit of tension and bring a treat up to your face. Mark and reward. Do that a couple times and your dog should start looking to you when you give the tactile cue with collar pressure. Mark and reward every time.

Once you get the looking, take a slight step. Mark even the slightest shift in body weight towards you. After a few repetitions, it'll start looking like this.

Do this same steps on the other side. Do the same steps with collar pressure coming from behind. Once you have your directionals and your dog can do all this with collar pressure, add a leash. Teach the same things inside. You should have loose leash walking at this point seeing your dog understands what the tension on the collar means.

Once you have got it right inside, follow these same steps in another room. Follow the same steps in a quiet outdoor location after your dog has had a sniff walk on a harness and long line to get to know the area. Once you have that, you can start slowly adding distractions.

Dogs don't really know how to put things together in each new place they go right away. By practicing these steps in different areas, you're creating mastery.
 
@bdmw3e With my staffie-boxer mix, I used a halter with a front attachment. If he tried to pull, it would turn him in the opposite direction. If he didn't pull, he could walk normally. It worked really well for him. I always forget how difficult he was at first because he became such a great walker.
 

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