New dog trainer interview - these are giant red flags, correct?

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@shogolist4jesus I've trained my dog both ways first as a devotee to cesar and then after YEARS of research found to fully understand psychology and positive reinforcement.

I can tell you both work. Fine. I can tell you that if you get corrections wrong you will have envoked MORE fear over the trigger because now it isn't just a startling motion or sound triggering cortisol it is a TOUCH.

Cortisol is like gravity the higher it is the less space you have for reaction or the more reaction with closer proximity to trigger. So if your correction is associated with the trigger they will think that somehow that scary sound or sight TOUCHES them and is at 0 DISTANCE resulting in the highest feeling trapped spring loaded responses...

If you get corrections RIGHT then you get a dog who behaves out of duress with tucked ears etc, but if you do it with positive reinforcement then you get a dog who bahves and LIKES it, keeps head relaxed and willingly joyfully does what it thinks you want.

 

[elohim]

@shogolist4jesus whats wrong with caesars methods. or is it just bad when they are used on a 9lb dog?

 

[richardson217]

@elohim This subreddit's stance on Cesar can be found here. That about sums it up for us.

 

[allie920]

@elohim I'm sure someone else can answer this better but my basic understanding is that his "pack leader" methodology and his use of physical correction is outdated and ineffective. Furthermore they can lead to a timid/ scared and/or aggressive dog. Anyone else want to weigh in?

 

[basilisk06]

@elohim Simply put, Ceasars methods are based around some initial assumptions that are wrong.

Initially a guy called David Mech did some research on wolves and saw that they would fight until they have some sort of hierarchy. So his take away was that this is how wolves structure their social lifes.

Mech kept researching wolves for decades and later corrected his findings. For one the group it was done with was in a Zoo and it was between wolves from all sorts of different places.

In reality wolves live in families and take a much more "natural" or "organic" structure. (Like how you deal differently with your parents compared to your cousins)

Also, wolves aren't dogs by a long shot. They behave very differently and we actually created them for us. (In a few ways there is no bond in the animal kingdom like humans and dogs. We are very in tune with each other)

...and from there on he builds his basis... and that is before you argue about effectiveness, cruelty and all that.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@shogolist4jesus Who was she, Cruella DeVille?

 

[shogolist4jesus]

@imagebeastmarkbeast She's a very popular trainer in my city that came highly recommended by way of an independent pet supply store owner. Scary.

 

[spinner981]

@shogolist4jesus Wow, I feel like this person is the poster child for what to avoid in a trainer.

Edit: I mistakenly called the lady a trainer, she is not.

 

[shogolist4jesus]

@spinner981 Why do you suppose she's so popular? Blows my mind.

 

[angelic_melody987]

@shogolist4jesus People don't know any better because they saw aunt and uncle training dog by hitting it with a news paper. Tradition is hard to break.

 

[spinner981]

@shogolist4jesus The only theory I can come up with is that "dominant" trainers or at the very least trainers that use aversive methods have themselves and cater to people who have control issues. How egotistical is it to believe you're some kind of beastmaster that animals fear due to your overwhelming authority and ability to cause pain? A dog and even a cat could seriously fuck you up if they wanted to, but they're domesticated and have been bred not to... Try and apply dominance theory to lions or polar bears and see how that works out...

 

[goldsmith129]

@shogolist4jesus Trainers like this give really fast immediate results (i.e. if you have a puller a prong collar or choke collar is most likely going to fix the issue pretty fast) however it causes a bunch of secondary issues like a leash reactive dog that most people don't make the association between the thing pinching the dogs neck every time they go for a walk and the dog loosing it's mind every time another dog approaches on leash.

 

[lizah]

@shogolist4jesus Shit I would tell her in email that you won't be using her and tell her why with links on why she is wrong. If she wants to be a good trainer she will learn from that. But if she has no interest, she probably won't even read it.