Hello! I have a 2,5 years old German shepherd male. I was thinking about fixing him and I already made an appointment but I’m still thinking about it because I read a lot of mixed opinions. I didn’t notice any behavioral problems with my dog yet.Can you guys tell me more about your doggos? Maybe it will help me with making decision.
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@lyndas The first question should be are you prepared to manage an intact dog? That means being 1000% sure your dog will not make an accidental litter. If the answer is no - just neuter the dog.
As far as health goes, that’s a great thing to talk with your vet about risks and benefits.
Since you haven’t noted any behavior issues the pros and cons there don’t really apply to you but many people are disappointed that the behavior difference isn’t that dramatic for most things.
As far as health goes, that’s a great thing to talk with your vet about risks and benefits.
Since you haven’t noted any behavior issues the pros and cons there don’t really apply to you but many people are disappointed that the behavior difference isn’t that dramatic for most things.
fionastone
New member
@fionastone It depends on where you live. In my area of the US we actually don’t have a surplus of adoptable dogs and shelters frequently ‘import’ dogs from other states or even other countries. The ‘always spay/neuter’ campaign has worked, we did the thing.
What that means is we are in a place where we get to be a little more thoughtful about recognizing that this is a surgery-which no surgery is risk free and there are also financial costs to having it done and people are - I think rightfully- considering a more nuanced approach to this discussion. Also there are certain folks like those who want to compete in a conformation ring who won’t fix for sport reasons.
Personally, I would consider vasectomy or leaving a male intact (my current dog was a pediatric neuter from a rescue but my lifestyle doesn’t expose my dogs to others unsupervised very often and those times would be easy to eliminate) but I would spay a female before her first heat cycle or after one heat cycle depending on the breed to protect her from health consequences of being intact.
This is why the first question is ‘well what does your dog’s lifestyle look like’ because I think for some individuals there’s more room for nuance than others. If you’re ignoring your dog at the dog park on the regular then it’s not a debate. If your dog never sees other dogs off leash then it’s more of a health and behavior question which has a lot of nuance depending on sex breed age and activities.
What that means is we are in a place where we get to be a little more thoughtful about recognizing that this is a surgery-which no surgery is risk free and there are also financial costs to having it done and people are - I think rightfully- considering a more nuanced approach to this discussion. Also there are certain folks like those who want to compete in a conformation ring who won’t fix for sport reasons.
Personally, I would consider vasectomy or leaving a male intact (my current dog was a pediatric neuter from a rescue but my lifestyle doesn’t expose my dogs to others unsupervised very often and those times would be easy to eliminate) but I would spay a female before her first heat cycle or after one heat cycle depending on the breed to protect her from health consequences of being intact.
This is why the first question is ‘well what does your dog’s lifestyle look like’ because I think for some individuals there’s more room for nuance than others. If you’re ignoring your dog at the dog park on the regular then it’s not a debate. If your dog never sees other dogs off leash then it’s more of a health and behavior question which has a lot of nuance depending on sex breed age and activities.
fionastone
New member
@tke129 You're very fortunate to live in an area free of excess dogs-the rescues in my area are all bursting at the seams with a combination of covid babies that people could not care for an oopsie litters from those who thought it wouldn't happen to them, and I hope more areas like yours can expand their import programs. The always spay/neuter campaign only works if we keep doing it. For the small percentage who feel the need to compete with intact dog, that is their prerogative and should be based on a discussion with their vet, but there is no need for the average pet to be able to reproduce. Lifestyle really has nothing to do with it.
@fionastone Whether it’s a conversation at all has everything to do with lifestyle. If your lifestyle is such that you cannot be completely sure there will be no accidental litters you have no business owning an intact dog. Period. That means no daycare, no boarding where there are other dogs, no dog parks, and possibly limited access to training facilities (mine bans females in season and allows intact dogs but also doesn’t allow dogs to play on site together except in puppy kindergarten). I know nothing about what ops life is like or whether keeping their dog intact is something that is even worth having a real discussion about so I tried not to make assumptions.
But the everyone should spay/neuter asap in all circumstance is, for lots of people, frankly shortsighted and turns off enough people that really would make the right choice for themselves and their families. I think it is because of the lack of education and conversation that now we see all kinds of backlash to sterilization which isn’t helpful either. In pushback to what people see as overly dogmatic messaging they have become oddly attached to their dogs genitals. This person is asking to understand what the pros and cons are and not knowing what their resources are I can’t give a 100% recommendation. But I do imagine that neutering probably is the better choice because it is for most folks.
To me the more interesting conversation is not whether (because for most people the answer is to sterilize their dog and if that’s not right for them they’re probably not asking on this forum) but more when and what version of sterilization is best for which individuals. But that wasn’t the question at hand.
But the everyone should spay/neuter asap in all circumstance is, for lots of people, frankly shortsighted and turns off enough people that really would make the right choice for themselves and their families. I think it is because of the lack of education and conversation that now we see all kinds of backlash to sterilization which isn’t helpful either. In pushback to what people see as overly dogmatic messaging they have become oddly attached to their dogs genitals. This person is asking to understand what the pros and cons are and not knowing what their resources are I can’t give a 100% recommendation. But I do imagine that neutering probably is the better choice because it is for most folks.
To me the more interesting conversation is not whether (because for most people the answer is to sterilize their dog and if that’s not right for them they’re probably not asking on this forum) but more when and what version of sterilization is best for which individuals. But that wasn’t the question at hand.
As far as living a place where we don’t have lots of excess dogs - we’re fortunate in some ways but unfortunate in others. It means we have a fair number of predatory private rescues bringing in dogs from other places to meet demand and frankly profit. It also means we have a problem managing the dogs that are in shelter but are not great adoption candidates and this gets hard and complex real quick. In my area at least I definitely see people still leaning on spay/neuter/adopt don’t shop as a way of avoiding these harder conversations about how to ethically match families with dogs. Which might be why I push back against that messaging even when someone lives somewhere else and the needs in their region are different - internet problems.
fionastone
New member
@tke129 These are all human problems that really don't have an impact on the individuals choice to sterilize their pet. I appreciate the other issues are heavily nuanced but those are adjacent to the direct fact that pets do not need to be able to reproduce and the most responsible choice is a simple procedure to prevent that happening
@lyndas What mixed opinions? The choice is a simple one, do you want your doggo to add to the over population of unwanted puppies in the world, or would you rather prevent overpopulation and spay. I would say spay. Too many unwanted puppies in the world today. Be a responsible pet owner and spay your pet.
@lyndas Health wise there are pros and cons to both neutering and not neutering.
If you don’t plan to ever breed him I always recommend neutering for several reasons.
First, Intact Males will do just about anything to get to a female in heat(even seemingly impossible things. My coworker knew a family who’s Great Dane was literally ripped the bathroom door apart to get to their small dog in heat. ) so that’s a full time 24/7 job for you. You may not be aware of any intact females nearby (or even several blocks away) but that’s always a risk that there is.
And even with adequate supervision , accidents can happen.
Also , consider his life going forward and what kind of life you hope for him to have.
If you want him to have dog friends once he’s fully mature , neuter him. (He may behave but other dogs can get all amped up around unaltered males and start shit)
If you ever want to him to be watched by friends or family (who either have other dogs or you can’t be 100% certain they’ll monitor him properly) neuter him.
If you ever want him to go to a doggie daycare, it’s a requirement after a certain age (even some boarding places require it)
If you ever want to take him to a dog park , neuter him.
If a dog is not going to be bred , it’s the responsible thing to do to spay or neuter.
I also personally feel it gives them a better quality of life since you can go more places and do more things with fewer issues.
If you don’t plan to ever breed him I always recommend neutering for several reasons.
First, Intact Males will do just about anything to get to a female in heat(even seemingly impossible things. My coworker knew a family who’s Great Dane was literally ripped the bathroom door apart to get to their small dog in heat. ) so that’s a full time 24/7 job for you. You may not be aware of any intact females nearby (or even several blocks away) but that’s always a risk that there is.
And even with adequate supervision , accidents can happen.
Also , consider his life going forward and what kind of life you hope for him to have.
If you want him to have dog friends once he’s fully mature , neuter him. (He may behave but other dogs can get all amped up around unaltered males and start shit)
If you ever want to him to be watched by friends or family (who either have other dogs or you can’t be 100% certain they’ll monitor him properly) neuter him.
If you ever want him to go to a doggie daycare, it’s a requirement after a certain age (even some boarding places require it)
If you ever want to take him to a dog park , neuter him.
If a dog is not going to be bred , it’s the responsible thing to do to spay or neuter.
I also personally feel it gives them a better quality of life since you can go more places and do more things with fewer issues.
@lyndas Intact male dogs are more likely to roam, more likely to be aggressive, and are at a much higher risk of cancer. Dogs reach adulthood much faster than humans (obviously) anyways unless you’re going to breed the dog I would say neuter, it probably will make your life easier. Here’s a source: https://www.madisonanimalcare.com/pros-and-cons-of-spaying-and-neutering
@lyndas Will you dog ever have access to females in heat? Will your dog be unsupervised outside? Will you neuter if your dog is engaging obsessively in hormonally driven behaviors?
Males really don't need to be neutered if they are well behaved and appropriately managed and supervised. You are not significantly reducing the risk of any cancers or diseases.
Apologies for broken links, old list that I need to update!
*Spay, Neuter And Joint Disease
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/spay-neuter-and-joint-disease/
*Long term effects, which clearly outlines the pros/cons- http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
*Considerations, including increase in fears, sound sensitivity, and aggression- http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/earlyspayconsiderations.pdf
*Concerning aggression and fearful dogs- http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/spaying_neutering.shtml
*Behavior and physical affects, which shows the correlation between neutering and increased aggression- http://www.sccgov.org/keyboard/atta...l 19, 2011/203472591/TMPKeyboard203477047.pdf
*Increase in bone cancer- http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1434.full
*Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0055937
*Your Dog Needs To Be Spayed Or Neutered – Right?
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/your-dog-needs-to-be-spayed-or-neutered-right/
*Veterinarian Karen Becker, "Why I've Had a Change of Heart About Neutering Pets" including traditional spay/neuter desexing vs. sterilization
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx
*Effects of ovariohysterectomy on reactivity in German Shepherd dogs
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109002330500064X
*Evaluation of the risk and age of onset of cancer and behavioral disorders in gonadectomized Vizslas
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24432963
The Vizsla study involved 2,505 dogs, and reported these results:
• Dogs neutered or spayed at any age were at significantly increased risk for developing mast cell cancer, lymphoma, all other cancers, all cancers combined, and fear of storms, compared with intact dogs.
• Females spayed at 12 months or younger, and both genders neutered or spayed at over 12 months had significantly increased odds of developing hemangiosarcoma, compared with intact dogs.
• Dogs of both genders neutered or spayed at 6 months or younger had significantly increased odds of developing a behavioral disorder, including separation anxiety, noise phobia, timidity, excitability, submissive urination, aggression, hyperactivity, and/or fear biting. When it came to thunderstorm phobia, all neutered or spayed Vizslas were at greater risk than intact Vizslas, regardless of age at neutering.
• The younger the age at neutering, the earlier the age at diagnosis with mast cell cancer, cancers other than mast cell, hemangiosarcoma, lymphoma, all cancers combined, a behavioral disorder, or fear of storms.
• Compared to intact dogs, neutered and spayed dogs had a 3.5 times higher risk of developing mast cell cancer, regardless of what age they were neutered.
• Spayed females had nine times higher incidence of hemangiosarcoma compared to intact females, regardless of when spaying was performed, however, no difference in incidence of this type of cancer was found for neutered vs. intact males.
• Neutered and spayed dogs had 4.3 times higher incidence of lymphoma (lymphosarcoma), regardless of age at time of neutering.
• Neutered and spayed dogs had five times higher incidence of other types of cancer, regardless of age of neutering.
Spayed females had 6.5 times higher incidence of all cancers combined compared to intact females, and neutered males had 3.6 times higher incidence than intact males.
Males really don't need to be neutered if they are well behaved and appropriately managed and supervised. You are not significantly reducing the risk of any cancers or diseases.
Apologies for broken links, old list that I need to update!
*Spay, Neuter And Joint Disease
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/spay-neuter-and-joint-disease/
*Long term effects, which clearly outlines the pros/cons- http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
*Considerations, including increase in fears, sound sensitivity, and aggression- http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/earlyspayconsiderations.pdf
*Concerning aggression and fearful dogs- http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/spaying_neutering.shtml
*Behavior and physical affects, which shows the correlation between neutering and increased aggression- http://www.sccgov.org/keyboard/atta...l 19, 2011/203472591/TMPKeyboard203477047.pdf
*Increase in bone cancer- http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1434.full
*Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0055937
*Your Dog Needs To Be Spayed Or Neutered – Right?
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/your-dog-needs-to-be-spayed-or-neutered-right/
*Veterinarian Karen Becker, "Why I've Had a Change of Heart About Neutering Pets" including traditional spay/neuter desexing vs. sterilization
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx
*Effects of ovariohysterectomy on reactivity in German Shepherd dogs
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109002330500064X
*Evaluation of the risk and age of onset of cancer and behavioral disorders in gonadectomized Vizslas
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24432963
The Vizsla study involved 2,505 dogs, and reported these results:
• Dogs neutered or spayed at any age were at significantly increased risk for developing mast cell cancer, lymphoma, all other cancers, all cancers combined, and fear of storms, compared with intact dogs.
• Females spayed at 12 months or younger, and both genders neutered or spayed at over 12 months had significantly increased odds of developing hemangiosarcoma, compared with intact dogs.
• Dogs of both genders neutered or spayed at 6 months or younger had significantly increased odds of developing a behavioral disorder, including separation anxiety, noise phobia, timidity, excitability, submissive urination, aggression, hyperactivity, and/or fear biting. When it came to thunderstorm phobia, all neutered or spayed Vizslas were at greater risk than intact Vizslas, regardless of age at neutering.
• The younger the age at neutering, the earlier the age at diagnosis with mast cell cancer, cancers other than mast cell, hemangiosarcoma, lymphoma, all cancers combined, a behavioral disorder, or fear of storms.
• Compared to intact dogs, neutered and spayed dogs had a 3.5 times higher risk of developing mast cell cancer, regardless of what age they were neutered.
• Spayed females had nine times higher incidence of hemangiosarcoma compared to intact females, regardless of when spaying was performed, however, no difference in incidence of this type of cancer was found for neutered vs. intact males.
• Neutered and spayed dogs had 4.3 times higher incidence of lymphoma (lymphosarcoma), regardless of age at time of neutering.
• Neutered and spayed dogs had five times higher incidence of other types of cancer, regardless of age of neutering.
Spayed females had 6.5 times higher incidence of all cancers combined compared to intact females, and neutered males had 3.6 times higher incidence than intact males.
@johnm8269 Do you know what a vasectomy is?
@lyndas Personally I went with a Vasectomy for my dog to keep his hormones and overall health intact. Tho it can be pricey and hard to find a place that does it.
Also if you know you can keep your dog from breeding don't bother. I wasn't planning on getting mine done but Had to compromise with family it was a constant fight because there view was you must get them neutered no matter what your situation is.
Also if you know you can keep your dog from breeding don't bother. I wasn't planning on getting mine done but Had to compromise with family it was a constant fight because there view was you must get them neutered no matter what your situation is.
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