Is anyone else’s dog extremely leash reactive but, super great off leash with no aggression??

[ranran19]

I’ve got a German shepherd who is usually such a great dog! He always plays great with other dogs and has never shown any signs of aggression with new dogs, at least until he’s on a leash anyway.

Every time he sees a new dog he has an almost compulsive desire to beeline straight to them and sniff/play with them, this behavior kicks on when he notices any dog within about 25 yards of us and if I have him off leash playing fetch I have about 0.5 seconds to grab him before he’s gone but, when he’s on leash and sees a dog he absolutely loses his mind when I keep him from running to the other dog. Barking, snapping, screaming, lunging, all of the above and any attempts to redirect his attention are futile.

I’ve struggled so much with this behavior because as a said, he’s not aggressive and if he could just get close enough to sniff the other dog he no longer behaves this way, even if I lead him away from the dog on leash. (And of course no one believes me when I try to reassure them he is friendly when he behaves that way,l because, why would they?? Lol)

I feel like most reactive dogs I hear about are aggressive so, I’m just curious to see if anyone has a pup like mine and how they’ve dealt with it?

 

[ruzou]

@ranran19 Its called barrier frustration! Hes fustrated because the leash is holding him back. Its actually very common and can happen from over socialization.

 

[ranran19]

@ruzou Ohhhh interesting. I got him in college and socialized him a LOT because I was afraid of having a protective/aggressive GSD. Even now, I’ve always figured he just needs more socialization to help with that behavior but, maybe that’s fed into the problem!

It’s also only in relation to dogs. Humans and wildlife seem to only pique his interest a bit. I wonder if he just assumes when he sees a dog it’s time to play?

 

[ruzou]

@ranran19 Yeah it can happen from letting a dog approach too many dogs on leash whenever they want and they start to want to say hi to every dog they see hence the barrier frustration from the leash enabling them to. You want to really work with his engagement with you. High high value treats from the distance where your dog doesn’t react to the other dog it can be far far away but thats where training happens and you can start to move closer as you progress. Its like he sees dog= you reward him for staying calm and looking back at you. It takes time but with repetition and consistency it can get better! Its called engage-disengage can look up on yt or online for more info.

 

[mizzy_emerald]

@ruzou Just fyi to both you and OP, oversocialization doesn't cause this. Some dogs can just be naturally easily excited by other dogs. I was VERY aware of leash frustration because shepherds generally tend to have that (I have a white swiss shepherd) and since day 1 my dog, that was very excited about other dogs and playtime, hasn't been allowed to do on-leash greetings and was taught to work around other dogs and rewarded for ignoring them. We did calm parallel walks, we only socialized him with adult, stable dogs.

He still developed leash reactivity in adolescence.

It's mild and we're now working on it and seeing fast results, but it still happened even though I did everything "right". If I did what you're calling "oversocialization" then it would likely be MUCH MUCH worse, but still - it's there and I knew it might happen, simply because since day 1 he's been super crazy about other dogs and we had to work on it non-stop.

 

[ruzou]

@mizzy_emerald I said it can happen from over socialization majority of cases I’ve seen have happened due to this but its not limited to just this!

 

[mizzy_emerald]

@ruzou Yep, it's definitely something that can happen, you're right! I just wish people were aware it can also happen simply because of genetics, just like some dogs are anxious since day 1, or aloof, or food-motivated etc. etc.

I just feel like a lot of people blame themselves over their dog's reactivity, no matter what type, and think that if only they did something better it wouldn't happen.

And it's not always the case

 

[truthandhope]

@mizzy_emerald Thank you for saying this. I’ve been blaming myself a lot. I worked so hard to ensure my dog would be friendly and socialized so for him to be leash reactive has been discouraging. What did I do wrong? But thanks for reminding me it might not be all my fault either.

 

[ruzou]

@mizzy_emerald Oh 100% genetics play a huge role in dogs I agree. My personal dog has been fear reactive from a very early age that was due to genetics it can be very tough to not blame yourself but it happens often as well!

 

[monk58]

@mizzy_emerald Yes I would agree there is a genetic and breed element to frustration reactivity and I do have to not beat myself up to much about not seeing how the pack experience was hype-ing him up and undermining all the training I was doing!

He is a sight hound and high speed chase and excitement is in his genes. My previosu experience of dogs was a terrier and they are very different.

I should have probably seen the danger of the lack of supervision in the pack walks but didn't have experience of them

He is also a true covid puppy and everyone was banging on about socialising the dogs! I was paying lots of money when I didn't need to (working from home) because I genuinely thought it was the best for him

My previous experience with dogs was a childhood pet who was a bit of a rescue and badly under socialised and showed fear based reactivity towards other dogs

 

[mizzy_emerald]

@monk58 Well, to be honest, there's no one way that will guarantee an ideal dog. And not all solutions and training methods will work for all dogs.

The most common advice for leash-reactive and dog-hyped dogs is to stop going to dog parks etc. and build a bond with the owner. My dog had a great bond with me and he's checking in on me on walks all the time, but he was still super hyped about dogs on walks (despite never being used to on-leash greetings etc). So after he grew out of a particularly bad adolescent phase I started going to our local off leash area and actually allowed him to interact with dogs MORE. Turns out that when he has regular, acceptable, various dog interactions he fulfills his dog socialization needs and, when we're on regular walks, doesn't get as excited.

So counterintuitively, more dog interactions was what helped him control himself more. When other dogs stopped being forbidden fruit we found balance, because he realized many dogs aren't that exciting at all, while I can always offer him fun play when he chooses me. But I also worked on this a lot - made sure to sometimes call him off when he was already satiated with dog play and play his favorite games, then release him back, or reward him with amazing snacks, etc. This taught him more self-control around dogs in general.

If someone did the same - didn't oversocialize the dog and STILL ended up with a leash excitement-based reactivity - it's worth a shot

 

[monk58]

@mizzy_emerald Yes!

I am at that stage now with my trainers encouragement although not in a dog park because we don't have them here. My trainer did feel he needed social outlet after our inital training became reflexive

I do greet on lead dogs he knows well now plus occasional well chosen new ones we see small groups of friends dogs for off lead play and socialisation

It was done in a controlled way though and there was a period of reduction in contact before building up again. We never stopped calmly greeting dogs he knew from being a pup though. He was good with them and calm enough. We didn't need to

We tweaked things and she is big on the individual dogs needs

Too true though no perfect recipe for children or dogs and alas they don't come with instruction manuals

 

[monk58]

@ranran19 Yes. My dog. He loves other dogs and gets very frustrated when he can't say hi to them

It is called leash reactivity/ leash frustration/ frustrated greeter and can also be linked to barrier frustration

I let the dog walkers pack over socialise my dog and he has low levels if impulse control and high levels of arousal when near other dogs on the leash

He basically tantrums: the snarling lunging barking whining when he goes over threshold (too close to the other dog) and can't control himself

His reactivity is caused by frustration

This id often misunderstood and mistreated by trainer and the general public

First stop on leash greetings and coming close to other dog (literally cross the road if you have to t get away from them!)

You first need to manage your dog so it stops practicing over arousal on the leash. Choose quiet places and times to walks your dog. Make it a low intensity environment like a quiet are of the park or open space with not too many dogs running around and lots of space to find his threshold distance where he stays calm

This is a graphic of the threshold

https://www.diamondsintheruff.com/thresholds#:~:text=If%20your%20dog%20tips%20over,He%20can%20still%20think!

He can only think and learn below threshold

You start to do engage/ disengage/ LAT LAD with high value treats (very high value at first: you want the dog to think hit the jackpot with this stuff.. whatever it is for your dog) and a clicker of marker word

https://www.oaklandanimalservices.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/the-engage-disengage-game.pdf

You are helping him interupt his arousal and develop impulse self control. Cueing in a look at me command

You then develop u-turns and pattern games and on leash handling. This series is really good

You can develop magic hands/ magnet hands and other handling and reward techniques

At the same time you paly games and micro lessons that build up the dogs self control and ability to control impulsive behaviour. If they are good at this take them outside and let them practice focusing on you when dogs are in the distance. You can even just sit on a bench and reward them for chilling and watching the dogs at a distance calmly

The other thing to be aware of is trigger stacking and how that can raise a dogs arousal

This site is a really good read on reactivity

https://www.3lostdogs.com/a-beginners-guide-to-helping-your-reactive-dog-get-better/

I would say some sessions one on one with a really good positive trainer will set you up for success with this and get your timing right

I have a dog just like yours: in a year he is 80 percent better

We don't do onleash greetings with stranger dogs at all but we are down to calmly walking past other dogs across the road with appropriate handling and encouragement by me

We can walk round the park with enough open space to step a bit away from other dogs

I hope another six months will bring us to metres

So good luck and one tip buy a clip on treat pouch and a clicker and carry always!

Also a well fitting harness is way less frustrating than a collar round their neck. Just makes mine more aroused

 

[felicitas]

@monk58 I've been to three trainers, two specializing in reactivity, and none of them have been great at acknowledging/addressing the training needs of my dog as a frustrated greeter. I understand the training protocols are quite similar, but figuring out if your dog's reactivity is rooted in fear v. frustration is critical when you get to more nuanced fine tuning of reactivity training.

All this is to say, I appreciate your post immensely!

 

[monk58]

@felicitas Thank you!

I feel really passionately about passing my own trainers advice on and this is a place where I do feel it helps people and we get it here to support each other.

Frustration reactivity is so common and I do think needs more awareness on how to help the dog in a positive way

I by sheer chance hit the jackpot with a trainer of trainers and a single session with her was such a relief!

Her view underlying emotion and motivation is critical. I agree. It lets you tweak techniques to the dogs needs and pace of improvement plus work with changing the dogs emotional state and response.

I had been getting totally worked over about my "aggressive" dog by my walker and oh just bystanders and everyone with an opinions

One walk through the environment with my trainer observing and she knew what he was and showed me the foundations of engage/ disengage.

She even said mine was the friendliest least complicated dog she has seen all week no matter how bad he sounded! Lol!

I really do feel she was such a relief for me as an owner who knew my dog was not aggressive but didn't know one hundred percent how to stage helping him

I do always acknowledge my experience is only in frustration reactivity and I only know a little about fear. Always afraid it is like if you have a hammer you only see a screw as a nail!

I was pretty sure from the OP description that it probably was frustration reactivity and I hope they can find a good trainer to support them and be sure

 

[ranran19]

@monk58 This is amazing, thank you so much!!!!

 

[monk58]

@ranran19 You are most welcome.

I hope the resources help and can give you a plan to go forwards

A good trainer who gets this kind of stuff is really helpful for your confidence as well!

 

[mizzy_emerald]

@monk58 All of this, amazing summary and great resources.

 

[christlover46]

@ranran19 My gsd cross is exactly the same because his previous owner messed up his socialisation. All his fun came from other dogs while his humans made no effort to form a bond with him, so dogs = fun and humans weren't to be trusted when he came to live with us.

Over the year and a half we have had him, he has made huge improvements.

We basically restrict on lead greetings, he can now see other dogs on lead but only if we have calm and he responds to commands such as "look at me" during the interaction.

He only goes off lead in controlled areas with his friends who he knows so we can control his interactions with other dogs. He is not allowed to free roam off lead to be allowed to run up to random dogs.

With keeping his interaction calm and controlled and limited and working on our bond with him and making people more of a fun prospect we have seen huge improvement in his leash frustration. It's taking a long time though.

 

[kreke]

@ranran19 Its quit common and can have a variety of reasons.

One can be barrier frustration if your dog is used to greet dogs on leash and has build up expectations to get to do that at any time.

Or it may as well be because the leash is limting communication and that leads to anxiety. Dogs off leash use a lot of space to communicate and a heads on greeting is percieved as rude or a threat. Usually dogs would approach each other in circular movements.