Ethical Breeding

[mrjobosco]

What do y’all consider ethical breeding?

What makes breeding unethical to you?

How does it affect the breeding and dog community and welfare?

Bonus questions: what do you think of crossbreeding?
do you think it’s ethical to breed an xl bully with a frenchie essentially creating a micro bully?

Edit: before y’all assume I personally have no intentions of cross breeding. It was a discussion that came up with my partner as we are new breeders.

 

[jereldean]

@mrjobosco The world doesn’t need more toad dogs. Stop it.

 

[corey3518]

@mrjobosco Health testing, pure bred breeding for the betterment of the breed not for science experiments.

 

[alexisfaith27]

@mrjobosco If you want a cross breed a bully you might as well go to an animal shelter because so many crosses end up there anyway. That’s irresponsible. I personally think frenchies shouldn’t be bred for their stubby noses because almost everyone of them typically has breathing problems. Brachycephalic dogs just feel irresponsibly bred because they’re bred on ‘cute’ looks and not for the welfare of the dog and breed in general. They can’t even give birth on their own.

 

[new_christian]

@mrjobosco Crossbreeding bullies is stupid and taking unnecessary steps backwards. There’s already enough quality stock out there for breeders to choose from. Why try to reverse engineer the breed? Half of the issues with bullies are created from idiots trying dumb stuff like that.

 

[mark0086]

@mrjobosco Ethical Breeding - Health testing breeding pairs, getting some type of accomplishments on your dogs, titles etc. to prove they are worthy of passing on their genes. Offering to take that puppy back anytime during it's life for whatever reason. Looking to breed better healthier dogs with every single litter produced. Working with a veterinarian when making the decision to breed.

Unethical Breeding - breeding for money/profit.

How does it affect - unhealthy dogs being sold to an unsuspecting public. Dogs with behavior issues due to hereditary problems. Costing the unsuspecting owners to shell out $$$ for trainers and vet bills. Causing an overflow of dogs without homes.

Crossbreeding is nothing more than a huge money grab done by backyard breeders and puppy mills. Again selling these puppies to an unsuspecting public that want the latest fad with a cute name attached. Not realizing that those breeding dogs were never health tested and that their new cutie puppy could be a walking time bomb of health and behavior issues.

These crossbred breeders aren't bringing out the best breeding dogs to start with. They are purchasing backyard bred or puppy mill dogs to start with. No reputable breeder is going to allow their dogs to be used for this type of venture.

There's hundreds of purebred breeds that are available to choose from, there are also thousands of pound hounds that need loving homes. That's where people should be getting their dogs from. Ethical breeders or from shelters that just want to see one of their dogs go to a good home and a loving safe environment.

Look I'm not saying all ethically purebred dogs are perfect health wise, I mean look at some of the breathing problems certain breeds have etc. I don't support that one bit. Also not every shelter dog is going to be the right fit. But it's the place to start when looking for a dog for you or your family.

 

[oldwoodsman]

@mrjobosco r/dogs has a great wiki about responsible breeding

 

[jhanice]

@mrjobosco from the perspective of someone who would buy from a reputable breeder.

for me ethical breeding changes based on breed. I do not consider breeding french bulldogs (for example) to the American standard to be ethical. in a general sense - health testing, genetic testing, joint screenings, the parents having titles and going through shows properly, a contract from the breeder that includes required spaying/neutering and a clause that the breeder will take the dog back. The focus should be on breeding for the long term health of the dog and continuation of the breed.

breeding dogs to make them tiny, breeding for smushed faces, not allowing people to see the parents/facility, breeding more than one litter a year (my personal preference is 2), breeding an adult with health or behavior concerns, breeding unregistered/untitled dogs, breeding “designer breeds”

how does unethical breeding affect it? so many ways. bulldogs (not all but a large portion) cannot give birth naturally anymore because the puppies heads are too big for the mom’s pelvis. so many of the dogs in shelters are “designer” breeds like pocket bullies and doodles. breeding without a concern for health/behavior leads to dogs with severe, lifelong health issues or temperaments that’s can’t be controlled. I have seen numerous pure (but backyard) bred dogs have to be euthanized because their temperaments make them unsafe to be around humans or other animals (in the local rescue scene).

cross breeding is bullshit. doodles are mutts, pocket bullies are mutts. people that purposefully breed pocket bullies should not be allowed to have intact dogs

 

[sustainableblueberry]

@mrjobosco Breeding to the breed standard, producing healthy puppies that better the breed while not being detrimental to the dam. Ethical breeding is caring about what happens to the puppies you produce as well for their whole life. Ethical breeding is purposefully done.

I have no idea what crossing a XL bully with a Frenchie would create. And what the purpose is for the cross.

 

[maybeitsme]

@mrjobosco As someone who bought a dog from an ethical breeder, I agree with the above comments about health testing, breeding to a standard, titling the parents, and caring for the puppies (appropriate early socialization, appropriate placements, always being willing to take any puppy back for any reason).

I would add that breeding an XL bully to a Frenchie is breeding two very different structures, which may come with health issues - you see it in doodles with large size or structure mismatches.

 

[thristyy]

@mrjobosco I believe that breeding is not inherently unethical but rather as long as the dogs are in good condition well fed watered etc then have as many as you like and do as you please now I have personal viewpoints about how to better breeds etc and how to breed correctly but those are my personal opinions and I don't expect everybody to hold them or use them that's up to the individual

 

[jamescohio]

@mrjobosco What if you just breed your dogs because you love the breed and there are ppl who would want puppies from you? I don't believe in putting my dogs under stress to perform for shows.

 

[donnags1964]

@jamescohio Ethical breeding is way more than slapping two dogs together. If you truly love the breed you would perform all the necessary health testing determined by the breed club, take a pup/dog back at any time of its life, (ideally) have all owners identified prior to the breeding, and work towards preserving/bettering the breed.

Having a dam/sire doesn’t guarantee the litter will be healthy/structurally correct/sound temperament. Those are established by carefully selecting traits that you want in the breeding.

Long story short- ethical breeding is more complex than your average joe’s BYB breeding program.

Ps- there are other ways to proving your dog outside of conformation (show). If the dog is too stressed in the dog show setting, it’s an indicator it shouldn’t be bred. Go to a dog show and see how happy those dogs are.

 

[katy777]

@jamescohio I understand where you are coming from. However, while getting dogs titled eats into the dog’s profit margin, it’s important to increase the value of your dog. You could have GCH quality, but without the title, your puppy sales prices are lower and thus you serve a lower income segment of the population.

That may be a decent practice. I think everyone who can care of them deserves a healthy puppy. However, when you don’t cover all your bases with health testing and proper pair matching (which costs hundreds of dollars), then the lower income family could be strapped with a financial burden they can’t afford and the dog may have their medical treatment neglected.

This perspective isn’t a money grab, it’s about trying to breed towards the best; even producing the best pet quality pups possible.

As far as dog shows, the travel can get expensive, but you don’t need to do all the shows. Do a few throughout the year as young as possible and then you have at least a year and a half to earn CH. Show dogs are well socialized and have a low dog aggression level, which is what the general public needs!

 

[home4good]

@mrjobosco The responses given so far seem to be good for preservation breeding. Most of the people that post/respond in this group only support preservation breeding of show dogs.

 

[tendery]

@mrjobosco If you aren't going to health test your foundation stock please test you first generation as for crossing in my opinion should only be crossed to amstaffs to clean the gene pool but if you want a working dog cross what you want if you want a working mutt go for it but do research first

 

[chrishudges]

@tendery People need to keep their greasy hands off the Amstaff!!! Leave all the bull and terrier breeds alone.They need to be preserved and not suffer the fate of BYB doodling culture

 

[tendery]

@chrishudges Both breeds are going down the drain gaff is basically a bully and bull terriers have to be crossed with a apbt to be healthy

 

[chrishudges]

@tendery I didn’t mean Bull terrier.Imeant all the bull and terrier breeds.The Amstaff is not basically a bully.It is first and foremost a Terrier and is a very healthy breed.

 

[tendery]

@chrishudges Sorry I thought you said bull terrier also I meant gaff bloodline not all amstaffs but gaff is getting pretty bully and that's facts