unlitmikey
New member
Dogs are not robots, they're not perfect, they make mistakes. Sometimes they can make fatal mistakes. That's why tools such as the eCollar, Prong Collar, or Gentle Leaders exist. They exist to guide and assist our dogs by associating aversive corrections to understand real world consequences. They exist to keep them safe and secure. The dog is not going to understand the legal consequence of biting a neighbor or the fatal consequence of getting run over by a car. Just like in nature, all animals including humans and dogs understand consequences to some degree. However, humans understand consequences better than dogs do. Positive Only training has Limitations. The Premack Principle has Limitations. Some people need to spend a week out in nature with a gallon jug of water, a tarp and a pocket knife. Then come back and tell us how nature doesn't use aversion. Nature is beautiful but cruel and unforgiving. We know Aversiveness exists in nature. It's should be our responsibility as dog owners to tap into what we know if it can prevent fatal accidents. I don't ever want my pets to have to suffer what nature would do to them if they didn't get to live under human rules. Having your recall 100% effective in a controlled familiar environment is still not a reliable recall. A reliable recall is when your dog accidentally gets loose in an unfamiliar environment with tons of high value distractions, some being potentially dangerous distractions, and your recall still takes precedence over high value distractions. That's a reliable recall. Balanced methods and aversive tools exist to successfully encounter unpredictable circumstances and come out with your dog alive, safe, and the safety of others. Perhaps the reason a lot of us do not want beneficial safety tools to be banned is out of "Compassion" for dogs. If these tools are banned, I expect to see...
"Let me tell you something about Compassion and respect for dogs. For a dog to end up on a shelter, to live on a concrete floor, walk through his own feces and urine, to be spinning around in that kennel, screaming and howling and being isolated or put in a kennel with another dog they don't know or are fearful of...Is one of the most traumatic things you can do to a sentient being. It is one the cruelest things when a family abandons a dog at the front door of a shelter and that dog is walked into the back by a shelter employee Put in a cage that he's never seen before and to never be seen once again from his family that he loved. If we're talking about sentient beings AVSAB and "Positive Only" people, we need to talk about the compassion we show to these sentient beings And locking them up in a kennel, with a steel door, cold wet floors, hot sticky nights, is not Compassion
If a pop on an prong collar, eCollar, or choke chain can solve that problem, then that dog should never end up there.
How compassionate are we for not giving that a try?
Honestly..."
Additionally, there are many peer reviewed studies that don't match up to the survey oriented misleading, biased, and poorly conducted studies that organizations such as AVSAB support and condone.
eCollar Ban Proposal San Francisco Committee & Ivan Balabanov
For some reason these biased organizations are choosing to ignore the other scientific studies. Funny how they're discarded...
go figure.....
Here's a Few
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159117300746
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159106002462
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1558787817301351
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6223971/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11278032/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12839065/
https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/catalog/6913428
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18056019/
https://elib.tiho-hannover.de/dissertations/salgirliy_ws08
https://www4.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/DrPForceFree.htm
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2752/089279302786992685
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._deterred_with_electronic_dog-training_collar
https://www.researchgate.net/public...second-year_confrontation_with_domestic_sheep
https://www.researchgate.net/public...itting_signal_in_Belgian_Malinois_Police_Dogs
https://www.researchgate.net/public...g_behavior_using_reinforcement_and_punishment
https://www.academia.edu/2263843/Co...ining_collar_pinch_collar_and_quitting_signal
https://aiam.org.au/resources/Documents/2000 UAM/PUB_Pro00_TaniaColeman_RichardMurray.pdf
Please follow me for more updates and content combating the non sense force free ideologists. To them, it's not about the dog in front of them, it's about themselves, their beliefs and the way they view the world.
https://stopthebans.org
https://www.youtube.com/@stopthebans
https://www.facebook.com/stopthebanssavedoglives/
https://twitter.com/stop_bans
https://www.tiktok.com/@stopbans?lang=en
https://www.instagram.com/xstopthebansx/
- Less shelter dogs getting adopted
- More dogs getting surrendered to Shelters
- Increase in population of shelter dogs
- Increase in "Humane Behavioral Euthanasia's"
- Increase in dog bites
- Breed Specific Legislations and banning of certain breeds
As they're already done in Europe countries where these tools are banned - The decline of high energy working breeds
- Banning of protection and competition sports
As Germany is actively working on legislation to ban sports similar to Schutzhund
"Let me tell you something about Compassion and respect for dogs. For a dog to end up on a shelter, to live on a concrete floor, walk through his own feces and urine, to be spinning around in that kennel, screaming and howling and being isolated or put in a kennel with another dog they don't know or are fearful of...Is one of the most traumatic things you can do to a sentient being. It is one the cruelest things when a family abandons a dog at the front door of a shelter and that dog is walked into the back by a shelter employee Put in a cage that he's never seen before and to never be seen once again from his family that he loved. If we're talking about sentient beings AVSAB and "Positive Only" people, we need to talk about the compassion we show to these sentient beings And locking them up in a kennel, with a steel door, cold wet floors, hot sticky nights, is not Compassion
If a pop on an prong collar, eCollar, or choke chain can solve that problem, then that dog should never end up there.
How compassionate are we for not giving that a try?
Honestly..."
Additionally, there are many peer reviewed studies that don't match up to the survey oriented misleading, biased, and poorly conducted studies that organizations such as AVSAB support and condone.
eCollar Ban Proposal San Francisco Committee & Ivan Balabanov
For some reason these biased organizations are choosing to ignore the other scientific studies. Funny how they're discarded...
go figure.....
Here's a Few
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159117300746
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159106002462
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1558787817301351
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6223971/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11278032/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12839065/
https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/catalog/6913428
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18056019/
https://elib.tiho-hannover.de/dissertations/salgirliy_ws08
https://www4.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/DrPForceFree.htm
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2752/089279302786992685
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._deterred_with_electronic_dog-training_collar
https://www.researchgate.net/public...second-year_confrontation_with_domestic_sheep
https://www.researchgate.net/public...itting_signal_in_Belgian_Malinois_Police_Dogs
https://www.researchgate.net/public...g_behavior_using_reinforcement_and_punishment
https://www.academia.edu/2263843/Co...ining_collar_pinch_collar_and_quitting_signal
https://aiam.org.au/resources/Documents/2000 UAM/PUB_Pro00_TaniaColeman_RichardMurray.pdf
Please follow me for more updates and content combating the non sense force free ideologists. To them, it's not about the dog in front of them, it's about themselves, their beliefs and the way they view the world.
https://stopthebans.org
https://www.youtube.com/@stopthebans
https://www.facebook.com/stopthebanssavedoglives/
https://twitter.com/stop_bans
https://www.tiktok.com/@stopbans?lang=en
https://www.instagram.com/xstopthebansx/