Can someone just purchase two pure bred dogs (of the same breed) and mate them together and sell their puppies as pure breds for pure bred prices?

[smalltownyouthpastor]

Obviously, I know the answer yes, but I am asking this from a breeders perspective. Is this "real" breeding? Do you as a breeder have a way of preventing this from happening (for instance, if I buy a pure bred dog from breeder A and another one from breeder B and the two dogs make puppies, can there be anything in place that the breeder made me sign that prevents me from selling the puppies?).

 

[bailey2017]

@smalltownyouthpastor They’d be purebred, but likely not well bred. Ethical breeders aren’t very likely to sell to someone who isn’t willing to adhere to the contract/backyard breed

 

[lumiere]

@smalltownyouthpastor So, I don't have a lot of time to explain, but there is Full Registration and Limited Registration with the AKC. Check out this link to learn more about what Limited Registration means.

 

[andrew742]

@smalltownyouthpastor They are purebred but this would still be considered backyard breeding and is unethical (unless you're doing full health workups, genetic testing, competing with the dogs and actively working to improve the breed).

It's also often in the breeder contract that you aren't allowed to breed their dogs, or they will have a spay/neuter clause

 

[rostislav89]

@smalltownyouthpastor This right here is why many ethical breeders stay on as a co-own even in limited registration pet homes, so if you do something sketchy they have a better leg to stand on to take the dog back in addition to the contract you signed.

 

[home4good]

@smalltownyouthpastor Cannot stop you from doing what you want with two dogs you own.

But what we can do is only allow two dogs registered in the correct way, bred according the rules defined, owned by the correct people, get 'papers' from the registration organization. So you have to follow AKC rules to get AKC papers, you have to follow ASCA rules to get ASCA papers, ABCA for ABCA, and so on. But if want to make your own papers we cannot stop you.

So while we can't prevent you from having puppies we can prevent you from getting a desired registration on the puppies.

 

[613jono]

@smalltownyouthpastor In reality, no, unfortunately. Contracts rarely hold up in court. The work around is staying on as a co owner until proof of spay so that if any litters are produced and REGISTERED you are notified via AKC and can refuse to sign the papers so puppies can’t be registered. They’ll still be purebred, but you won’t have a way to prove it.

 

[maybeitsme]

@613jono Or if the breeder sold the dog with limited registration, any puppies produced wouldn't be able to be registered. They could still be sold, obviously, but wouldn't come with papers.

 

[gregory_r_g]

@613jono I remember a little while back on dogbook (dog "snob" fb groups) that there was a lawsuit happening over a borzoi being bred off contract. It was used in the wolven gazehound project and something else iirc. Curious to see how it ends up playing out.

 

[steffi]

@gregory_r_g That's very recent and ongoing.

 

[gregory_r_g]

@steffi Yeah I couldn't remember exactly when I seen it. I thought so, and legal stuff takes forever, so.

 

[steffi]

@gregory_r_g I'm involved in the sighthound world of dogbook. It's actually looking promising right now for the og breeder who is pissed thanks to her contract and technically illegal pass of the dog to that smooth brain running wolven. It's a mess either way.

 

[gregory_r_g]

@steffi I've heard some very unsavory things about the wolven gazehound project, both the breeding program itself and the people behind it. Huge yikes is all I can say. That sure is one way you can blacklist yourself from the ethical/preservation breeding community forever.

 

[alvakm]

@gregory_r_g What unsavoury things? Aren't they part of the Functional breeding program thingy?

 

[gregory_r_g]

@alvakm Faking health testing/ofas, breeding dogs off contract, transphobic, apparently the Ibizan used in the project is HA, a lot of people in the rare breed communities of the breeds they are using (like shikoku) find it abhorrent that they'd rather use them in a heinz 57 type project than actual rare breed preservation. There's a lot wrong with them.

 

[alvakm]

@gregory_r_g Ew for transphobia. And why breed an HA dog at all?

Were the rare breeds for extra spice special in their program@s

 

[gregory_r_g]

@alvakm Who knows what their motivations were lol.

 

[taylordactyl]

@613jono Good contracts rarely do not hold up in court.

 

[chrishudges]

@taylordactyl Depends on the lawyers

 

[613jono]

@taylordactyl I’ve never known a single breeder who has been able to enforce a breeding contract in the courts. Maybe that’s just my pool of peers, but I’d love to be wrong. Do you know of any court cases involving breech of contract regarding breeding dogs?

I’m coming from a US conformation breeder standpoint