Who owes these puppies, our female - no breeder contract

[zsevers]

Long story but I'll try to make is short and clear. The main question is:

We really need to know if we are legally allowed to regain possession of our dog and her puppies until they are 8 weeks old and return the remainder of the puppies back to the "breeders". (As per our agreement.

We purchased a beautiful female Golden R from a local licensed breeder. After several years we were approached by the breeder asking if we wanted to breed her.

We sat down and laid out the "deal". NO Contract was written or signed.

In short, the oral agreement was as follows:

Breeder would pay for tests to determine the proper timing of the breeding,

The breeder would help with the birthing, and care for the pups and our female until the pups were 8 weeks.

The breeders would sell the remaining puppies and keep the sales money.

We would pay for all the hips/eyes tests, our neighbors also did the same for the male.

We would get our pick of the females and our friends would get the pick of the males.

We would be allowed to visit most any day with in reason.

Personality issues arose immediately after the birth and we were denied access to our dog and the puppies. We receive daily, angry text messages several times a day.

We asked for the puppies to be seen by a Vet, denied.

We asked for a visitation secheudle, denied.

Our dog is our life, and while we understood she would be gone (locally) for at least 8 weeks we had agreed to be able to see her and her puppies frequently.

 

[dvm0071]

@zsevers You made a boat load of bad decisions here. I feel like this would be a question better for like a lawyer advice subreddit.

 

[zsevers]

@dvm0071 Agreed,

But we can't change the past, only the future. I will have a look at r/legaladvice advice.

 

[waiting4]

@zsevers I'm in agreement with the other comment that said you should take this to something like r/legaladvice instead of this sub. No written contract or record of a verbal contract may complicate things. Only a lawyer can really tell you what your legal rights are in this situation.

Did you sign any contract when originally purchasing your dog from the breeder?

 

[donnags1964]

@waiting4 That’s my question as well. Who is the legal owner of the dog. Are they listed as co-owner of the dam!

 

[zsevers]

@donnags1964 we are the only owner of the dam.

 

[zsevers]

@waiting4 Yes, our original contract only says the price and the normal return issues.

The AKC paper listed offspring can not be AKC certified but as I mentioned in another response, the breeders changed the AKC papers to allow breeding.

 

[lovingmyhusband]

@zsevers So the dog was on limited registration but the breeder didn't require you to spay her. Was there any health testing of bitch or sire before breeding aside from best time to breed? Who paid the vet bills during the pregnancy? Yeah I'm not getting good vibes from this. You need to see a lawyer specializing in contract law. Just fyi, the AKC doesn't license breeders. They have "Breeders of Merit" if certain qualifications are met.

 

[zsevers]

@lovingmyhusband Both bitch and sire had hip, and eyes tested

 

[lovingmyhusband]

@zsevers I don't know what the genetic issues are in that breed. Usually there's some cardiac testing involved. Here's what the golden retriever club says.
https://grca.org/about-the-breed/health-research/health-screenings-for-the-parents-of-a-litter/
And you don't put your breeding stock on limited registration. Usually there's a co-owner on the full registration with you. You need a lawyer.

 

[donnags1964]

@lovingmyhusband Honestly, it’s not uncommon for a dog to be sold on limited registration and then changed to full- especially if the dog turns out to be a great representation of the breed (health, titles, etc).

 

[lovingmyhusband]

@donnags1964 I've owned show dogs for 20 years and I've never heard of this. Usually limited registration dogs are sold on spay/neuter contracts in my experience. Maybe this breed is different from mine.

 

[mella]

@lovingmyhusband I am a breeder of merit and I had to provide documentations of everything. All the tests, evals, everything. It is very expensive and time consuming to be on their list of merit, but if you are truly in in to breed better quality, healthier dogs, then it is worth it. I have two lines of my breed that genetic issues common to the breed have been completely bred out.

 

[zsevers]

@waiting4 We did sign a contract but it didn't say we had to spay her. We had planned to when she reached 2 but by then the breeders had approached use with this idea.

 

[seekerfinder]

@zsevers If you’ve got paperwork stating you’re the owner of the dog that would be helpful in regaining access to her as you’d have legal right to her. IE original contract, vet records, her AKC registration in your name etc.. that’s proof of ownership

There’s a lot of other fishy things going on in this post so I would follow advice from above and get an attorney to advise you.

 

[drsharles]

@zsevers Visiting her frequently may be harder on her than not seeing you. How old are her pups?

 

[zsevers]

@drsharles just going on 2 weeks. Its been so sad to not be able to be with her. We wanted to experience this with her.

 

[drsharles]

@zsevers These types of situations are hard on everyone involved. I'm assuming you are what's considered a guardian home and you co-own your girl with her breeder. It's stressful for the dam to be in a new environment and have her pups and it's hard on the owner being away from their beloved pet. As for who legally owns the pups that's hard to say without knowing how she's registered. You also mention the neighbor being involved, is their dog the sire of the litter?

 

[zsevers]

@drsharles "We" are my spouse and myself, we are the only owners of the bitch, the sire is not the folks housing the puppies.

 

[jimmyk]

@zsevers Many many breeders do not allow outside guests to visit puppies until they have had at the very least the first set of shots- usually at six weeks.

If you are indeed the only owner on the akc paperwork registration will come to you and the stud owner, once the litter is registered. Contact the akc to verify with your dogs’ registration number.