What’s up with the uprise of merle bully breeds?

[jesussavedme2017]

I’m a vet med student, so I try to keep up with the latest “animal trends”. Eg. Doodles and recently something called a blue bay shephered?

Anyways recently I’ve really REALLY noticed an uprise in merle bully breeds, especially “XL bulldogs” and “pocket and exotic” bulldogs.

When I come across a Live video feed on tik tok with the breeder showcasing their “ bulldogzzz” (yes, I tend not to be exaggerating, a lot of descriptions are of this kind) I tend to ask about what breed that is or are they crossed because I’m genuinely curious where exactly the merle comes from. I’m always ignored or even laughed at.

Could I just be seeing this because most reputable breeders won’t be going Live to show their litters and sell them to total strangers? Some of these breeders film themselves inseminating their females, which I quiet honestly find disturbing (recently someone AI-d 5 bitches at once!).

Opinions? Could this be something to be worried about as it’s starting to normalize non standard coat colors? What about the genetics?

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@jesussavedme2017 The breeders who are producing those xl and pocket bullys are not ethical breeders in the first place. They’re breeding for profit and pet buyers often prize coat color novelty over health or simply don’t realize that this is the choice they’re making. Dogs that have double Merle are prone to deafness and other issues, so that’s just a genetic time bomb in the hands of ignorant and profit focused breeders. It’s a shame for the owners who just don’t know any better that end up with sick dogs and enormous vet bills, not to mention the suffering of these animals. No ethical breeders are breeding for color or breeding 5?!! bitches at a time. As a vet you can always educate owners if they are receptive but a lot of folks just really don’t actually care and so you’ll be helping make these poor creatures as comfortable as possible for their comparatively short lives.

 

[jesussavedme2017]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Yes absolutley, I’m glad that there were some people in the comments saying it was a puppy mill, but they were silenced by “you all are just haterz, you don’t understand the grind”.

It really is all about money, these toad dogs can barely walk so it can’t be for protection or work.

And it’s a dog which suffers.

 

[boatjourney]

@jesussavedme2017 Some of those toad line bullies only live to be three years old, it’s pure animal cruelty.

 

[mango]

@jesussavedme2017 It makes me think of the people who breed Merle into Chow Chows. I have an aussie/chow/acd rescue and as much as I love him, each of those breeds when well bred are lovely to keep, I struggle to understand why you would want the very difficult personality that results from adding Aussie zaniness to a reserved chow. My senior was a difficult puppy, and it took us a lot of time to get him trained, and even still we have some reactivity with him.

My senior is my reason I became a trainer, and why I have such firm beliefs on ethical breeding and appropriate vetting of families who want to rescue a shelter dog. It's why I volunteer to temperament test dogs locally too so that matching dogs to families is smoother. I also wish that the DNA companies would work with shelters to actually type their dogs so people know what they're getting into when rescuing, but that's an entirely different soap box I could write a book about.

So after that roundabout way of saying that all, I think it's unethical to breed crosses especially for the colors, with no regard for health or temperament. I also don't imagine the people who breed designer dogs like this don't do much early socialization either, which sets the dogs up for failure.

 

[jesussavedme2017]

@mango I remember seeing a silver newfoundler getting groomed, the groomer really made great points about how these crosses have problems with their fur and temperment. Just like doodles I’d imagine. :/

 

[mango]

@jesussavedme2017 Yeah - my senior's fur is AWFUL to manage. the overcoat is brittle, the undercoat is fine and really crimpy and mats really easily. I have to use a rolled collar or he mats there, and we brush three times a day. The shedding is horrific as well. When he goes, it will probably be years of finding his tumble weeds before we're able to clean it all up, and I actually save and spin his undercoat into yarn from brushing because it's so soft and crimpy. I just hate that people intentionally create these dogs with the lie that doodles are shed free with good hair that is low maintenance. The reality is you don't know what kind of hair/fluff the puppies are going to get, and then owners aren't ready for it.

I have a second rescue dog who is the opposite case of my senior, he's a pyrenees/border collie/acd cross, and got a medium coat with the most manageable undercoat I've ever seen. He dries completely with a toweling, only needs to be brushed after he's been wet. His temperament is incredible, he does therapy work and search and rescue work and has no problem differentiating between the two, and was a farm accident from a pure bred working line Great Pyrenees. There was a good chance he'd get a super LGD temperament or a strong Border Collie temperament, but he got a mellow blend of the two, and I'm pretty sure he's smarter than I am!

I will say, I think big part of the difference is he came from a shelter that had an early socialization program, and I'm certain that it gave him more resilience to novel situations, and confidence to explore novelty when he's faced with it.

 

[jesussavedme2017]

@mango You sound like such a great, caring and understanding dog owner. I wish more people are like you, in this day and age a simple google search can tell you why dogs like doodles are a bad idea. (And basic genetic biology).

 

[mango]

@jesussavedme2017 Thank you - I really began focusing on dog training after covid - I have degrees in microbiology and epidemiology and covid absolutely burned me out to a point that I've been shifting into training as my primary profession. It's always been a passion of mine when I did it part time, but I've only grown in passion the more I learn.

I wish more people would learn about canine development and ethology before getting a dog because I think that would go a long way into helping them understand that a puppy is just a puppy, and that some breeds aren't suitable for their lifestyle. (let me tell you, I have 8 Bluey-themed pure bred cattle dogs in homes with small children that have developed reactive behaviors towards the children because their enrichment needs aren't being met and the parents finally sought training AFTER it escalated to this.)

The lack of understanding around ethology in the general public is why I strongly support breeders choosing the dog that gets placed with which family, and why I'm okay with breeders telling owners that their breed isn't a good fit for the lifestyle. I could write pages and pages of "hot takes" about these topics.

To actually answer the actual question you asked, the people who are marketing the crosses and designer breeds this way don't have a solid network of dog owners or other breeders. They don't have homes before they breed, and they don't want to end up stuck with all the leftover puppies. They need views to build business, and to get views they need to make audacious videos. Reputable breeders let their work speak for themselves, have networks of dog owners and other breeders, and usually don't breed until they have homes for the puppies.

 

[jhofste]

@mango I have malamute Canadian Inuit dog mixes. Bred for high work drive. Their coat needs essentially 0 management. I've met 6 year Olds who have been outside whole life and seem clean enough I'd let inside. Their winter coat grows in and if housed outside full time they shed near 0 when cold and dark. Then they blow it and it regrows 1 bath or less a year fine.

I took on 2 rehomes I just found a pet home for. I only want to keep dogs driven to work right now. They had a similar mom to all mine but a collie dad. Their coats were -37F (proven comfort in that last month) proof but wete gonna need a lot of brushing. The longer softer coat can get ice balling issues. The best coat is the dense under fur and hard wire straight and long gaurd layer. Those dogs were very smart and much more handler focused. Didn't want to mush and not as food driven. The food drive intensity in the other dogs scared them.

 

[vanitysmurf]

@jesussavedme2017

silver newfoundler

Cousin of mine has a silver newfie who's allergic to grass. It's a total nightmare, they had to rip up all the grass in their yard and taking him on walks is difficult because if an 150lb dog wants to roll in a patch of grass, you ain't stopping him. He also stinks, has horrible diarrhea, and they've spent so much money on all kinds of special treatments to try and help his poor skin. Of course, the "breeder" marketed him as a ultra rare, super expensive kind of newfie, ugh.

 

[dvm0071]

@jesussavedme2017 What is a “silver newfoundler”?? Gray newfoundlands do exist and are a healthy recognized color by reputable breeders and registries

 

[jesussavedme2017]

@dvm0071 I believe it’s a Newfoundlander mixed with weimaraner or maybe even a “silver lab”. The groomer did specify that this coat is non standard and that was also probably the reason why the dogs fur was different texture. I wish I could find a link to attach.

 

[nathanbmajor7]

@jesussavedme2017 Americans in particular, are shallow, and as long as we pick for color and overdone appearance instead of caring more about temperament and health these money hungry opportunists will keep producing unstable and unhealthy dogs. It's very sad but it's a two-fold problem both with the producers and the buyers.

Beware of any breeder of any breed marketing new and unique colors or highlighting color over more important qualities. I say this as someone who would have picked a puppy based off color when I was younger and has since learned better.

 

[davecb]

@jesussavedme2017

recently something called a blue bay shephered?

That one has been around for awhile with one, maybe two breeders. AFAIK the only thing that they've tried to do is produce wolfy-looking black/blue dogs.

As far as merle goes, some people go for color over everything else. I have friends who breed Aussies, good ones, and pet people will hold out for the exact color they want. I get having a preference, but not at the expense of anything else.

But it's why merle is such a thing now in doodles. The breeders will claim that Aussies add (fill in the blank) to the doodles, but really what they add is merle. Same with any other breed that has had merle wedged into it.

The XL bully and the frog bully people are all about hype. They have tie pictures on their web site, they have wait lists posted with crazy prices on them, and they hardcore market their dogs.

They're not at all the same market as someone breeding dogs and doing it quietly but correctly.

 

[jesussavedme2017]

@davecb I just don’t get the hype? Even if you do find toad dogs good looking, they can’t run, they can’t work, they won’t protect you, they can’t even breed or give birth.

It’s really scary honestly.

Being on campus really gave me insight about how great well bred dogs are. Borzoi, cavaliers, poodles and even well bred french bulldogs are such night and day to their poorly bred counterparts (look and health wise).

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@jesussavedme2017 I think people buying hype breeds don't primarily care that it's a dog, which is why running/playing/protecting/ect aren't prioritized. It's more like the market for rare sneakers or snake morphs than the typical market for family dogs. they are in-group status symbols first and pets second.

 

[davecb]

@jesussavedme2017

I just don’t get the hype? Even if you do find toad dogs good looking, they can’t run, they can’t work, they won’t protect you, they can’t even breed or give birth.

I get liking what something looks like. But when it is not possible to produce it in a healthy way...

I know lots of brachy dogs that are speed demons in aglity or in FastCAT. Like REALLY fast dogs. But no way could a toad dog do anything.

 

[hummelav]

@jesussavedme2017 But they’re so COOL looking and they were sooooo expensive and will get the owner so many fake internet cool points and likes!!

That’s the hype. People brag about spending $3,000+ on a mutt but they have no money for vet care or training. They have no idea what they’ve gotten themselves into.

The average American considering any of these “designer” breeds like doodles or dogs with known problems like bulldogs probably can’t even tell you WHY they want that specific dog. Doodle people say they want them because they’re hypoallergenic. That’s a marketing scam. People want bulldogs because they’re cute or they like their coloring or love all the wrinkles!! They have no plan for preventing yeast infections in the wrinkles and have no way of knowing a well bred dog from a bad one.

They’re an accessory unfortunately.

 

[jhofste]

@jesussavedme2017 The people breeding those dogs right are hunting wild pigs and probably housing chain dogs. If someone wants to argue about chains it comes up all the time. It's better than a similar sized kennel. They get better interaction with dog next to, with human and are offered more motion with continual motion.