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mathteacher

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This might be long, sorry in advance. Figured some context would be nice. I have a male red merle Australian Shepherd who is registered with the AKC, I purchased breeding rights with him and planned to breed at some point. Heā€™s gorgeous and comes from a show line, and breeding was always something I wanted to get into. My boyfriendā€™s parents fell in love with him and decided to get an Aussie of their own. They wanted one that they could breed with him so I sent them several reputable breeders in our state and gave them the rundown of the importance of reputable breeding, red flags, qualities to look for, etc. And that was that. A few weeks later they had a new red tricolor Aussie puppy. I asked if she was AKC, and they said yes. She never really looked fully Aussie to me once she matured, at least not a typical one. Her coat never got full or long, just kind of wispy. She was lanky and had a sort of narrow face. However, I trusted that she was purebred. Fast forward 3 years, and breeding was just not on the agenda for them, so I ended up acquiring a black tri female of my own last year in hopes to start a breeding program this upcoming year. I still need to do a handful of things like genetic testing and OFA screenings. (That shit is expensive šŸ˜®ā€šŸ’Ø)
Anyways, we visit my bfā€™s family every so often and usually bring our dogs along. Last year I had recommended that they spay their female since we more than likely were not going to breed, and it would aid in avoiding potential health risks. I also just didnā€™t want to breed my dog with her anymore because of her looks and some temperament and behavioral issues. They did not, and this past February when we visited she was in heat. She wore a diaper inside, and I brought along belly bands for my male anyways because he likes to mark at their house. No one knew exactly how far along in her heat she was, and my male did not seem overly interested so I figured we would be okay. My bf and I were outside with the dogs detailing our vehicles when his younger brother let her outside to potty. My dog mounted her for what could not have been more than 8 seconds before we all screamed running at them, and he dismounted. I was not concerned because they didnā€™t tie and it was so quick. Well, about a month later we get a call from my bfā€™s dad and he said he believes their dog is pregnant because her nipples are swollen. We told him thereā€™s no shot, and it was probably a phantom pregnancy. Then a few weeks later sheā€™s ACTUALLY looking pregnant and now Iā€™m worried. But also totally in denial and assuming she got knocked up by a neighbor dog (This is before I knew what a slip mating was, lol). I told my bf that we should recommend to them the option of spaying and/or terminating the pregnancy since they didnā€™t really want them anyways, but he insisted theyā€™d never want to do that. Once she gave birth there was no denying that my dog was indeed the father. She had 9 puppies, 6 red tris and 3 red merles. So now that we knew, I told bfā€™s mom to go ahead and send me their dogā€™s registration info so I could get the litter registration process rolling. THIS is when they decided to tell me ā€œoh so actuallyā€¦. The breeder we got her from said this was her last litter and decided not to register them.ā€ Big huge red flag. I was so shocked, and honestly really upset because had I known, I would have never wanted to breed my dog with theirs. This is also when I found out that the breeder was not among the list of breeders I recommended, but was someone that a friend of a friend had a dog from.. I suggested getting in contact with their breeder for the sire and dam registration and AKC to see if there is any way to get her registered. Their breeder never replied, and to make matters worse my bfā€™s mom sent me photos of the dogā€™s parents and neither of them look breed standard, like at all. So for the past couple of weeks Iā€™ve just been feeling really bad and a little ashamed over the whole situation, and thinking about all the ways I could have prevented the pregnancy from happening. It sucks because Iā€™ve always had the mentality that if youā€™re going to breed youā€™ve gotta do it right or not at all because thereā€™s already an overpopulation of dogs in shelters, and then thereā€™s the ever growing issue of designer breeds and BYBs. I canā€™t help but feel like Iā€™ve now contributed to the problem. Theyā€™re doing a great job raising these puppies, but they keep asking me where they should list them and I donā€™t really know because all of the resources Iā€™m familiar with require or favor registration. I want nothing more than long happy and healthy lives for them. This all just happened so fast. šŸ˜–
 
@dukedesu Or emergency vet care.

I've seen emergency c sections cost up to 7k (and some vets have a policy to spay all dogs who come in for an emergency c section).

If Mom or any of the puppies need to be hospitalized, you're going to be paying 1-2k per day (at least in my area).
 
@dukedesu Gets very expensive proving your dog can do what it's designed to do. I know a guy who breeds huskies and he spends thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours a year to prove his dogs are good enough to breed. He's basically gone for 6 months of the year chasing snow. Kind of made me laugh a while back because he was talking about how one of the females he was hoping to breed wasn't going to be bred because she wasn't up to snuff since she got tired at 80 miles or so of running and then someone who just shows their dog brought their breeder along and they got tired after just 3 miles.

What's the standard for Salukis? Do they do rabbit coursing to prove they're up to snuff since that's what they were bred for? I have a gsp I never intend to breed but my breeder gave a big list of health tests and hunting titles I'd have to earn before he signed breeding rights over if I ever wanted them.

There's a guy on here with beautiful Salukis and greyhound and lots of great pictures of them out in the scrub brush catching hares.
 
@rodm1974 Open Field Coursing is very limited to one region of the country (USA) and nowhere in Europe, so it would be impossible to prove all Salukis in that venue, unfortunately; they would end up extinct. I've been lucky to have some dogs I've bred on hares. The closest thing we can get to it in most of the world is lure coursing/racing/etc. I do some of that when I am able and have a dog who runs clean (many dogs will not run clean on plastic, but most all will run clean on hares), and of course I show my dogs. Luckily, the moderate structure of Salukis does mean that many of the show bred ones are still capable of taking hares and doing both, but of course those who live in the hare coursing region have the advantage of being able to more accurate select for ability (imo).
 
@mathteacher It sucks and you got so unlucky with the timings but at the end of the day, these puppies are just as much your responsibility as the ones youā€™re planning to breed from your own selected bitches. You knew the bitch was in heat and took the risk of having your male over there with her and I can see why it should have been ok but in this case it didnā€™t pay off.

As a responsible breeder you should be putting in every bit of effort into finding and vetting homes for these puppies as you would your own. You may have to start thinking outside of the box in terms of looking at dog sports communities who might be looking for a new project or if any of your contacts would be interested (now is the time to swallow your pride and look at the client list you may have had lined up for your own litters.)

You must be so annoyed at the situation but these puppies deserve homes every bit as good as if their mum had the right bits of paper attached to her name. Personally Iā€™d be disappointed if I found out a breeder I had liked had previously dumped a litter of pups at a rescue because they didnā€™t want them.
 
@mathteacher I need to start keeping an actual tally of puppies born from people using birth control that consists of a diaper.

Iā€™d go figure out if thereā€™s a herding dog rescue group that they can work with. Those people will have a far easier time finding homes.

Craigā€™s List homes probably will dump the puppies at a shelter at a year or so, when theyā€™re not cute and have no bite inhibition.

I wish I could be more positive.
 
@davecb Haha keep us updated. Unfortunately neither of them were wearing protection during the incident.
Yeah based on other replies thatā€™s probably what Iā€™ll be looking into. For sure going to avoid Craigslist.. My bfā€™s mom has grown very attached to them and wants to keep one possibly two, and she seems to really want to make sure the rest go to good homes or responsible people that they know. Thereā€™s just so many of them
 
@mathteacher If she keeps any puppies? Please make sure that she neuters everyone by like six months at the latest, including the mom of the litter. Otherwise sheā€™s going to wind up with incest puppies. I guarantee it. She shouldnā€™t wait at all. She should have it done as early as her Vet will take care of it. And the mom should be spayed ASAP. As soon as sheā€™s done nursing puppies, she needs to be spayed.

And for anyone that wants to tell me that actually itā€™s healthier if you leave an animal intact? Yeah that doesnā€™t count when the puppies are going to wind up in a shelter.

Boyfriendā€™s mom has already demonstrated that sheā€™s not capable of keeping an intact animal so thereā€™s no point in adding more to that household.

And some people literally think that a diaper is birth control. Itā€™s mind-boggling. Itā€™s like animals donā€™t need thumbs to figure out how to get the diaper off.
 
@mathteacher Don't kid yourself bitch britches and belly bands are NOT "protection". They do not stop or prevent two animals from breeding. The only way to prevent unwanted litters is keeping the two dogs completely apart. If your bf's mom's bitch is in season there is absolutely no reason to take your male to visit. This was an accident waiting to happen.
 
@mathteacher I think it's time to help reset her expectations. These puppies are not economically worth what she's thinking because the parents are not health tested, papered or from a successful breeding program. They are unfortunately backyard bred. That doesn't make them worthless but it needs to change how she's looking at it. One option would be to go through a rescue or to partner with them for guidance. Another would be gifting her an attorney consultation to make a contract requiring spay/neuter at an appropriate age and Microchips that list back to her in the event puppies are surrendered to a shelter in the future. Unfortunately with the continued doodle and Bluey craze it is very important to do these things to prevent your dogs pups from being used for further backyard breeding.
 
@mathteacher I gathered that an ad on the net like Craigslist is not a good idea in the US so try to contact a rescue or something like that which will help them with the process ?
 
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