Methods on showing your dog you’re standing up for them

[dawnikki]

Hey, guys! I’m in an almost year long reactive dog raising, and one of things my dog trainer has said - it’s very important to let know your dog you’re taking charge of situation dog feels uncomfortable, scared, reactive.

I’ll ask my dog trainer about my concerns, but I’m looking for support and advice from this community, as I’m feeling growing frustration. It feels like I’m doing everything as calm as humanly can (including other important parts of reactive dog training, i.g. walking away, counter conditioning etc.) but my dog still won’t trust me in many fearful situations and still will try to “solve the problem” on her own, even though I’m practicing the best I can to help her.

Aforementioned methods are:
1) Standing in front of dog and trigger. If lunging/barking, taking dog by the harness and simultaneously blocking it + not letting the dog get closer to it. If this doesn’t work, then start pushing dog backwards thus creating distance with the trigger.
2) In case reactive behaviour is more automatic, learned, rather than pure fear based, use voice (“stop”, “by-uh”), and if dog doesn’t acknowledge the sound, use louder, sharper voice (bark-back, so to speak, as dog parents would do) to signal - this is not how we do things.
3) Be as calm and collected in the process and show according body language.

My issues are, that once I block my dog (1), she’s desperately trying to escape my block and tries to look past me, which defeats whole purpose. Also, it seems sometimes, that it doesn’t matter how confident or unsure I feel. (3) and it’s not clear to me how to communicate calm, collected body language in a way that’s clear to my dog.

Have you had any methods, approaches to tackle this, or any other luck?

 

[zakknight]

@dawnikki Rather than blocking my dog, I usually just immediately turn around and get us out of the situation. I realize that’s not always possible of course, but that’s my first option in most cases.

He wants, more than anything in that moment, to just get out of there, so that’s what we do.

 

[dawnikki]

@zakknight Yea, this is also my first choice. However it’s just not always possible to walk away somewhere else. Or she’s already so fixated on trigger it isn’t possible to get her attention off of it, even by walking away. Thus a need for blocking the trigger.

 

[zakknight]

@dawnikki True, I understand that, same.

 

[donica]

@dawnikki I’m not a fan of the body blocking method. My dog might learn to redirect into me and it seems like generally a bad idea for a dog to not be able to watch the threat. If I can’t do u-turns, trot away, or otherwise get away, I just bring her closer to me and let her jump on the traffic handle. Unlike a lot of people, I also never require a sit. My dog prefers to move when uncomfortable and letting her speed up leaving has improved many of her responses more than even treats in some cases.

I also feel like blocking slows training because in my opinion the dog should fully see the trigger to desensitize.

Also being louder has never helped for me. I might say one firm no. If that doesn’t work, I will speak to her calmly and softly. Usually good girl or it’s ok. If I am louder, I feel more like it’s just encouragement. Both my dogs get steadily louder together and it seems like yelling or shouting a lot is just like “agreeing” to bark at the trigger.

I’ve found that speaking lower and softly to be quite powerful. And being very disinterested. It’s sort of a show that I don’t agree with her opinion of threats.

I once successfully even got another dog to give up barking at us by calming my own dog and then just being so neutral the fence dog gave in as well. It’s one of my prouder moments in training.

Edit: But staying under threshold is critical. I also have no problem stuffing a treat into her face and trying to walk away together even if she’s over threshold. Sometimes the combined moving and treats snaps her out faster than just letting her go off. She also then gets a treat when she’s fully broken off as well. So even if I wasn’t fast enough at the beginning she’s still learning to recover quicker and at every triggering event.

 

[hldawson3]

@donica i’ve never seen anyone else do such a great job of explaining my personal approach to training/redirecting and when/how/why to reward my dog. i think we have identical methods of management, wild but surprisingly and pleasantly affirming. sounds like things are going well with your pup!! congrats

 

[donica]

@hldawson3 Training method buddies! She’s recently been able to go passed quiet tethered dogs with zero response.

And thanks! I sometimes get so focused on training the next thing I forget to remember how much she’s improved.

 

[hldawson3]

@donica yo that’s such an awesome breakthrough, congrats!!! this sub is helpful for me bc i remember being there (all the struggle posts/people at the beginning of their reactivity journey) and then look at my furson and it’s like night and day

 

[dawnikki]

@donica The more my dog saw triggers and reacted by barking/lunging, the more she has practiced this behaviour. And sometimes she might see it as the fastest, most effective solution, thus turning into automatic behaviour - as it has worked, since triggers have moved past us. This is when I started practicing to stand in front of her to create a barrier of some kind between her and the trigger if we can’t get away with by using a real distance. So instead I create a “distance” for her.
However, I wouldn’t agree that seeing trigger desensitises my dog, as at that point she’s already seeing a threat and she can’t make any more positive associations. With distance and her not going full reactivity mode - there yes, it’s totally appropriate.

 

[donica]

@dawnikki I adopted my dog at two. Her behavior was already automatic. Most dog behaviors are pretty deep after one year. Additionally, you said your dog is dodging around you so even with blocking your dog is still seeing the trigger fine.

You asked for advice, but don’t like mine. That’s fine by me. Good luck with your training.

 

[by_our_love]

@dawnikki Once they are over threshold, it’s all about leading them away from/ past the trigger as quickly and confidently as possible. There is literally no learning/teaching to be done once they are at a point of reacting. Think about when you are emotionally overwhelmed and someone tries to calm you down. It’s not that easy to just get out of that state, even if you can understand the words of the person trying to reassure you that everything is ok. It’s the same for your dog, but they can’t even be reasoned with since they don’t speak our language.

Sometimes things happen and the trigger is unavoidable. Just try to get out of the situation as quickly and CALMLY as possible - dogs can sense your breathing patterns and heartbeat. If you are anxious, they WILL pick up on that. You can and absolutely should continue working on desensitization when the dog is calm again, but once they cross the line from aware and curious to aroused and reacting - it really is fruitless to try and show them that everything will be all right, because for them, their emotional reaction at that moment is proof (in their minds) that everything is not all right.

 

[monk58]

@dawnikki I think there is too much focus on the very abstract oh I will protect the dog.. cause it is fearful and some how the dog will understand that and not need to feel fear and act itself

I listen to trainers and think... I am really not sure that many dogs actually think like that... or think as protectively about us as many owners seem to think

It is a very human interpretation of behaviour and seems to me particularly simplistic. We don't actually speak dog that well.

Anyway once the dog is over threshold and reacting it is unlikely to calm and stop because its panic centre in its brain is already firing. The poster that says walk away and distance is absolutely correct

Holding the dog in the fear zone too close just reinforces the need to fear

BAT is far far more helpful if the dog is fearful...

 

[vikimahauty]

@dawnikki What credentials does this “trainer” have? This sounds like outdated/balanced training methods. Most positive reinforcement training is centered around setting a dog up for success and rewarding good choices. We make a point of practicing at a distance and keeping the dog under threshold.

If your dog is barking/lunging they are not using their thinking brain and are not going to be able to listen to you.

Being calm is always good, but exposure to the trigger at a distance and intensity that the dog notices the trigger but is able to make good choices is key to success.

Eventually the distance can be reduced but only after the dog has experience choosing to move away/ignoring a trigger when a greater distance.