Looking for tips from other groomers who have dealt with Lagottos and their crazy owners…

[cicion]

Don’t ask me how, but I have suddenly become the “expert” in my area for grooming Lagotto Romagnolos. I now have multiple clients coming to me with this breed because I am the only groomer they have worked with who doesn’t just give their dog a “doodle” haircut.
My first customer that started referring me to everyone knows that they’re uncommon and that I hadn’t groomed them before I started working with her, so recently she printed out an 11 page PDF booklet with tips on grooming them that was clearly intended for owners of the breed with no grooming experience to use as a reference (here is the PDF ) Even with regular grooming (every 5-8 weeks) I’m finding their coat really difficult to work with since it is so thick and curly and just seems to want to matt up. I’ve been grooming for over 10 years and w have a lot of experience when it comes to curly coats but am struggling even with all the tips and tricks I use on other matted breeds.
Is there anyone out there that’s groomed this breed before that can share some insight on what has and hasn’t worked for them with this breed? TIA

 

[xekuter]

@cicion This is almost certainly not helpful, but seriously what is up with their owners? Someone also brought a very similar (might have even been the same, it was a while so I can’t remember) booklet, insisting the groomer needed to look at the nail trimming diagrams because ‘their nails are different!’ The diagram in question was a completely standard dog nail trimming diagram, of course.

I’m really interested what they consider not a doodle haircut, honestly.

 

[cicion]

@xekuter At the moment I only have two different clients with these dogs but both of them insist on the “Rustic” look of which means they want the dog’s coats left long but not blown out, air-dried so they are curly, and they want the breed cut on their heads so pretty much a super round head, where ears blend into the head to complete the round shape, and then they want the faces to look “natural” so unkempt beard and they never want me to clear the eyes much at all, it just goes against everything I do as a groomer and drives me nuts!

 

[sandhillsanglican]

@cicion After the groom take a wet towel and rub it into the coat all over, it will dampen the coat, and if left to air dry, it will keep a curley look.

 

[charlespe]

@sandhillsanglican Or a spray bottle. Mist the air around the dog and toss them in a drying kennel for 15 minutes.

 

[p4m3l4]

@cicion So if they’re wanting to go the “Rustic” look, which is what I do for my lagotto, they’re supposed to be getting a 7-blade cut. An all-over 7-blade cut grows out to a proper lagotto shape. They’re supposed to be even length all over as opposed to…this. A rustic cut is basically treating them like a sheep, you leave it be for months and then sheer it all off. It will pick up some tangles but the curl prevents it from forming pelts like a doodle or shi tsu. Anything longer than a 7 and they generally do need it blown out, you can just get it wet after to re-establish the curl. But it’s not like you can drag a clippers with a comb on it through the fully curly hair, it still needs to be completely tangle-free. Your client is expecting a miracle.

I know the lagotto Facebook group is obsessed with the lagotto lady, but I don’t know much about her. This site is from an actual groomer and lagotto breeder. The videos I linked are behind a pay wall so I don’t know if you’d want to get a client to purchase or what, but it is information actually intended for groomers.

I personally do an all-over 7-blade cut and don’t bother with any of the maintenance or fancy stuff, but when I worked as a bather, the lagottos always got a forced-air dryer blow-out for any kind of longer cut. It just didn’t need to be as straight as for a poodle getting the Pom Pom cut.

 

[joyathome]

@p4m3l4 I was going to say basically this, I've always dealt with lagatto owners by convincing them to treat the dog like a sheep. They're often the easiest dogs for me to groom because they are docile and sweet, stand still, and it's pretty much just a bath dog with a few extra steps. Love them.

 

[cutoan]

@cicion I found this video

pretty helpful. To be fair, I groom my lagotto myself and keep his fur short, but I can see why the owners want the rustic look.

 

[p4m3l4]

@xekuter Their nails are different in that they grow supernaturally fast, not that they need to be cut different.

 

[tempy1]

@xekuter Translation from a Lagotto owner: "Not a doodle" means:

-Don't leave extra length on the ears.
-Short, clean, carrot shaped tail.
-Don't shave the top of the snout.
-Leave just enough of the stop so that the eye ridge and snout do not look disconnected.
-Don't blow out the curls. (Or if you do, wet them and let the curls return before owner picks them up!)

 

[bertile]

@cicion We fired ours owner was never happy and he ALWAYS needed to be shave down which she then complained about because “you’re not supposed to brush the breed” and “matting to the skin is natural”
She was always in cahoots with the breeder who was anti groomer. That’s the only lagotto we have done and honestly don’t think I would want to do another one! Not much help to you problem but needed to vent haha

 

[cicion]

@bertile No worries! Honestly it makes me feel better to hear that other people have also struggled with this breed and their owners.

 

[porthospathos]

@bertile Is that a reputable breeder? Like is that actually a thing (being anti groomer) in the lagotto world or is that breeder not actually reputable? That sounds so off base for a legit breeder

Edit: typo wrong word

 

[jp175]

@porthospathos I don’t have experience with Lagottos, but in my general experience, there are a lot of breeders who are anti-groomer and it’s a great easy way for me to pick out who’s from a byb. Ethical and reputable breeders, in my experience, take grooming very seriously and if a buyer is going to be working with a groomer vs doing their own grooming, they will usually advise to find a good groomer they’re comfortable with and approach it as an “owner and groomer vs the problem” scenario instead of “owner vs groomer.” Remember reputable breeders aren’t making a living off of breeding — most of them work a day job, often working with animals outside of breeding and many of them are groomers themselves.

On the contrary to the reputable breeder’s approach, backyard breeders love to spread misinformation. I see it most often in doodles since they have such a high maintenance coat, but I regularly see it in every breed. I live in the rural southern USA where backyard breeding is rampant and the majority of my clients are from bybs. The breeders like to vilify people who work in the animal industry, from groomers to vets to nutritionists. The goal is to have a buyer who thinks the breeder is the true expert on the breed so they put a lot of stock into what the breeder says. If they can get the buyer to believe that this breeder knows better about this breed than all the professionals, the buyer is going to spread it by word of mouth and come back for their next dog, so it generates more cash flow for the breeder. When issues arise from the misinformation they give, they’ve already built such a solid relationship and rapport with the owner while isolating them from animal care professionals that they’re able to convince them that “the groomer is just saying that because they want more money/they’re too lazy to brush/whatever” or “the vet is saying that because they get a payout from the food company/they try to coerce you into getting more healthcare than you need, have you tried these puppy essential oils my wife sells/these further complications are actually a common side effect of X treatment you got at the vet, not because you followed my advice.”

 

[xekuter]

@jp175 This is so well said. I never thought of it quite this way but I think you’re 100% correct.

 

[charlespe]

@jp175 I've known many people in my life who are like this. Not just backyard breeders. Idiots out in the world have read an article from somewhere that gives the wrong information and suddenly, because it backs up what they want to believe, they KNOW that there is some conspiracy to fool everyone. They know the truth because they read it on the internet... And "the internet never lies!" (Quoted by Abraham Lincoln)

 

[p4m3l4]

@porthospathos The breeder my lagotto comes from is a groomer. They do need to be groomed. If you want to go the no-brush route with a lagotto (which is fine to do, they don’t pelt or get heavy mats) then they need a 7-blade for their haircuts.

 

[porthospathos]

@p4m3l4 If they don't pelt or get heavy mats, does that mean they do get mats but they just aren't tight? That's what I'm gathering if they need a 7blade

 

[p4m3l4]

@porthospathos Yep, they’re kind of just a dense fuzz. Nothing I’d personally want to de-mat but not impossible.

 

[maysa]

@p4m3l4 Can you explain a bit about why you are differentiating this from matting? I would classify the state of the coat in the picture as matted. Are you saying you don't believe this would not continue to progress further into the stages of matting if it wasn't shaved? That it would not continue to grow and tighten?

I am stuck on the idea that a lagottos coat will not ever heavily matt or become a pelt. I've seen many lagottos in various stages of matting and certainly some that I would call "pelted".

The grooming routine you're describing above from my perspective is simply letting the dog become matted and then shaving it short again. This is also the routine described in your link from the lagotto grooming website and she even uses that wording. She's not shying away from the word matting - she's saying explicitly to keep the dog matted. Now, I'm not saying that with judgement or giving any opinion but just to clarify that the coat is not magical and doesn't work in a special way unlike any other dog that prevents matting.

They certainly have a much denser heavier curlier coat than a poodle, it's true! Their coat is not the same. But just as a poodle's coat is not the same as a shih tzu's. All of them still grow continuously and will matt with neglect.

ETA: One funny thing that may give some perspective I’m compelled to point out is that this grooming routine - #7 all over then grow out until matted then then shave again - is way more common for poodles in reality than a highly stylized high maintenance stereotypical poodle cut. The difference between the perception of this routine on a lagotto and a poodle is really cultural.