JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION
- Thread starter nigheandonn
- Start date
@luvtogrow2 
I sincerely hope the Red Bull comment is a joke lol
It is possible to synthesize taurine now or extract from certain types of algae for a plant-based source, but the synthetic versions are unfortunately not bio-available to our little feline friends and they can't synthesize it from methionine and cysteine (with the aid of Vitamin B6) like we can.
I sincerely hope the Red Bull comment is a joke lolIt is possible to synthesize taurine now or extract from certain types of algae for a plant-based source, but the synthetic versions are unfortunately not bio-available to our little feline friends and they can't synthesize it from methionine and cysteine (with the aid of Vitamin B6) like we can.
luvtogrow2
New member
@luvtogrow2 Oh I know it does - your response just makes it sound like just because its in Red Bull that means it's not derived from a meat product. 
I would guess that the Taurine in Red Bull is likely synthetic, but if it's derived from an animal and in a product that otherwise doesn't contain animal products, the product still isn't vegan.
I would guess that the Taurine in Red Bull is likely synthetic, but if it's derived from an animal and in a product that otherwise doesn't contain animal products, the product still isn't vegan. imagebeastmarkbeast
New member
@jessicaaddslove Do you see what you just did there? “While we’re on this topic...” That is precisely what an open discussion should be like. You’re not directly responding to the post or question, but adding in insights that others may appreciate.
imagebeastmarkbeast
New member
@jessicaaddslove Human diet trends (not that veganism is a trend for all, but for some) should probably not cross over into animal food hahaha. When Blue Buffalo got super popular I started feeling so guilty for my dog's Purina Pro. I asked my vet about doing grain-free and stuff and she basically said "no that's stupid - it's just mirroring human diets. Your dog is perfectly healthy with his current food." Like wow! So people without animal-science related degrees don't know what they're talking about! Bonkers lol!
soccer2222
New member
@jessicaaddslove I couldn’t agree more with you - vegans feeding their carnivore animals a vegan diet is just abuse in my eyes.
@soccer2222 Can you expand on your abuse point, if you don't mind? Most of the research I've done on the matter pointed to the fact that, as long as all the nutritional needs of the dog are met, they can live exactly the same on a vegan diet.
lilcsinthespring
New member
@metsuko Not op, but most articles I read actually say that not enough research has been done. This one explains it well, I think, where it says in theory it should be fine for dogs but grain free should also be fine and now it's possibly being linked to DCM. Plus most commercially available vegan dog foods aren't properly balanced, so if you do plan to feed vegan get in touch with a veterinary nutritionist so that they can make sure your dog is getting all the nutrients they need
@lilcsinthespring You're completely right on all fronts here. I just got stuck on the "vegans feeding their carnivore animals a vegan diet is just abuse in my eyes" part, which I disagree with, as long as all the precautions to have a balanced diet are met (which isn't easy, I completely agree).
@metsuko Yeah, this is ironic to say in this particular thread about giving unsolicited advice, so I didn't bother to reply to the commenter above... but you are absolutely right.
Having eaten grain and scraps from early agrarian societies for literally centuries, dogs have evolved to have specific enzymes and genes that make them omnivorous just like humans. It is actually quite amazing when you study dogs' evolution alongside humans. Also, in the west, there is a lot of importance given for a meat based diet both for humans and dogs. But, majority of the Indian sub-continent is vegetarian and those who own dogs feed them vegetarian diet like jowar roti (a common Indian flatbread that has carbs with protein), rice, buttermilk, pulses, etc. (granted its not vegan, but close enough)
P.S. Cats, on the other hand, no, they cannot survive on vegan diet. They are obligate carnivores.
Having eaten grain and scraps from early agrarian societies for literally centuries, dogs have evolved to have specific enzymes and genes that make them omnivorous just like humans. It is actually quite amazing when you study dogs' evolution alongside humans. Also, in the west, there is a lot of importance given for a meat based diet both for humans and dogs. But, majority of the Indian sub-continent is vegetarian and those who own dogs feed them vegetarian diet like jowar roti (a common Indian flatbread that has carbs with protein), rice, buttermilk, pulses, etc. (granted its not vegan, but close enough)
P.S. Cats, on the other hand, no, they cannot survive on vegan diet. They are obligate carnivores.
soccer2222
New member
@metsuko What I mean is that the people I have seen feeding their dogs vegan diets are normally not well researched and thought out diets. The post you have linked to, specifically states that it needs to be carefully designed, but most people aren’t “carefully designing” a vegan diet for dogs. Also, just because it can be done, doesn’t mean it needs to be done.
@soccer2222 I completely agree with your point, giving your dog a vegan diet isn't easy, and you need to really make sure that all their nutritional/dietary needs are met. Someone not doing this is abusing their dog 100%.
This is just an issue that I researched quite a bit since I'm vegan myself, but I decided not to feed my dog a vegan diet for now. My reasoning behind it is that I've taken a personal, thought out choice about my dietary restrictions and that it wouldn't necessarily be fair to force it upon another living being (but then again, it's also unfair to force it upon the dead animal as well, I'm in a bit of a mental conundrum here lol).
This is just an issue that I researched quite a bit since I'm vegan myself, but I decided not to feed my dog a vegan diet for now. My reasoning behind it is that I've taken a personal, thought out choice about my dietary restrictions and that it wouldn't necessarily be fair to force it upon another living being (but then again, it's also unfair to force it upon the dead animal as well, I'm in a bit of a mental conundrum here lol).
imagebeastmarkbeast
New member
@soccer2222 Have you tried asking a question here about raw feeding? All you get is downvotes and copypasta about kibble.
imagebeastmarkbeast
New member
@nigheandonn I am in the Facebook group for dog owners of my city. Holy hell is there unsolicited advice in that group!!! Before joining it, I had no idea there were so many anti-Vaxxers (not completely, but to an extent), anti-neuterers and pro-raw people in this city! Someone recently asked about solutions for leaving their dog with severe SA home alone and they casually mentioned the dog sometimes gets seizures. One comment said “My dog use to get seizures but then once he was on a raw food diet they stopped!” Like come on...
In another instance, someone asked about a good vet to go to for neutering. Someone replied with “I would first like to ask, why are you neutering? As a trainer, I would never consider that” and then went on a long rant about neutering. These were very recent posts too. Like in the past few days. There are many similar comments about vaccines. When someone asks about vaccine prices, you will always get comments of people saying “why are you vaccinating for lepto?” Or “don’t over-vaccinated!!!!!”. Calm down it’s not your dog. And the people asking these questions are being responsible owners by neutering and vaccinating their dogs.
That being said, I do think there are exceptions where people should be called out. We all want what’s best for the dog. It’s a big pet peeve of mine when I read about someone who had done NO prior research before getting a puppy and just finde an ad online one day for a cute puppy so gets it. Then they post something like “I screamed at my 8 week old puppy and he won’t listen. He also wakes up at night. What do I do?” Sure, I will help them. But I will also give them a bit of a scolding. There was actually someone who posted on r/dogs MANY times over the past few weeks. First it started with “Should I get this dog?” (He was a first time owner). Everyone said these dogs are not for first time owners and given his schedule and lack of experience (as well as his refusal to take any advice), he should not get one. Well he ended up getting a puppy of this specific breed that everyone warned him against. Now keep in mind he has done NO prior research on puppy raising or even dogs in general. He posts things like “I yell at my puppy and she doesn’t listen” and “the puppy is independent what am I doing wrong” (btw this is an extremely aloof breed). I believe there was a post where he even hits the poor puppy. He’s posting questions that ANYONE would know by just a quick google search. Not only that, but he doesn’t listen to anyone’s responses. I want what’s best for this poor puppy and it’s not with him. But that’s an extreme case. I also WILL comment on public health issues where people refuse to vaccinate with the recommended vaccines (or refuse to titre if that’s what they prefer) or ask for serious medical advice but won’t go to the vet.
In another instance, someone asked about a good vet to go to for neutering. Someone replied with “I would first like to ask, why are you neutering? As a trainer, I would never consider that” and then went on a long rant about neutering. These were very recent posts too. Like in the past few days. There are many similar comments about vaccines. When someone asks about vaccine prices, you will always get comments of people saying “why are you vaccinating for lepto?” Or “don’t over-vaccinated!!!!!”. Calm down it’s not your dog. And the people asking these questions are being responsible owners by neutering and vaccinating their dogs.
That being said, I do think there are exceptions where people should be called out. We all want what’s best for the dog. It’s a big pet peeve of mine when I read about someone who had done NO prior research before getting a puppy and just finde an ad online one day for a cute puppy so gets it. Then they post something like “I screamed at my 8 week old puppy and he won’t listen. He also wakes up at night. What do I do?” Sure, I will help them. But I will also give them a bit of a scolding. There was actually someone who posted on r/dogs MANY times over the past few weeks. First it started with “Should I get this dog?” (He was a first time owner). Everyone said these dogs are not for first time owners and given his schedule and lack of experience (as well as his refusal to take any advice), he should not get one. Well he ended up getting a puppy of this specific breed that everyone warned him against. Now keep in mind he has done NO prior research on puppy raising or even dogs in general. He posts things like “I yell at my puppy and she doesn’t listen” and “the puppy is independent what am I doing wrong” (btw this is an extremely aloof breed). I believe there was a post where he even hits the poor puppy. He’s posting questions that ANYONE would know by just a quick google search. Not only that, but he doesn’t listen to anyone’s responses. I want what’s best for this poor puppy and it’s not with him. But that’s an extreme case. I also WILL comment on public health issues where people refuse to vaccinate with the recommended vaccines (or refuse to titre if that’s what they prefer) or ask for serious medical advice but won’t go to the vet.
britbrit90s
New member
@imagebeastmarkbeast I’m with you on the no-research impulse buyers.. unfortunately a close friend of mine did the exact same thing, very much dislikes her puppy and complains that I won’t help her train him...1- I give advice and you don’t listen to it because it’s not as easy as you thought and 2- It is not my job as a fellow puppy owner to train your dog for you! Rant over but I deeply empathise with you on that one haha
@nigheandonn OMG such a social media pet peeve of mine. I don't mind unsolicited advice so much, it's the non answers. Like the Kibble/raw dog food one. It's everywhere. I once asked about buying conditioner in a foreign country while traveling and someone wanted to know why I needed so much conditioner! Or asking something specific to the medication my child takes. Someone answered, i don't know, we only use xyz supplements (and probably doterra oils too 
). Ugh.
). Ugh.@nigheandonn As someone with littermates who is sick of hearing the lectures, THANK YOU
nigheandonn
New member
@clairedet I was afraid to say it bc I feel like most ppl will take it badly but like also STOP MAKING ME FEEL BAD! I have littermates. It’s done. No one but me knows the situation around me having them, and how hard I’ve worked to raise them! and tbh (regardless of the lectures) they’re independent, loving, and amazing dogs. if I wanted to know about littermate syndrome that would’ve been the question I asked! also shoutout to you for raising littermates! you rock!!
@nigheandonn No it DEFINITELY needed to be said haha. And yes exactly! Like I don’t need to explain my situation to anyone or “prove” that I know about littermates. I asked a question once about like boundary training (so training them to stay out of our kitchen) and just mentioned that one got the hang of it but the other didn’t and asked if there’s any other approaches and just ended up with a lecture about how having littermates is irresponsible and I’ll have to end up giving one away someday
And thank you! Same to you!
And thank you! Same to you!