Humbled - training is NOT the issue or the answer

[sylvester2011]

@baohomotorprovn250932 The last trainer we saw had 30 years of experience in police and service dog training. He flat out said, « why are you walking your dog if all it does is cause him stress? ». He said to stop walking him altogether, to only take him out in isolated areas on a long line and let him explore, and do enrichment work at home and in our yard.

 

[monk58]

@baohomotorprovn250932 I think your next course of action is to approach your vet for referral to a behaviourist. It may be medication will help your dogs hyperarousal and get them below threshold where they are able to take on board a behaviour modification programme and relax enough

It is absolutely fine to stop walking your fog especially neighbour hood walks! You sound like you both need a stress break to let the hormones fall and trigger stacking reduce and there are other ways to enrich and tire your dog especially if you have a garden

https://www.hannegrice.com/walk-the-dog/stress-in-dogs-what-we-cant-see/

Honestly a really good thing to do when you do want to take your dog out is to.... if you have access to a car is to pop your dog in a covered crate in the car so they don't get to hyped up in transit and get them out to the countryside or a running field or sniffspot for breaks at a regular intervals

You can also take them really out of hours retail parks or science parks. Cemetaries if they permit dogs are good too

Anywhere with open space and reduced dogs so you can work on their foundation skills and lower their arousal outside

But a behaviourist or your vet and a behaviourist level trainer is a must!

But give them a break and up at home enrichment

https://aniedireland.com/100daysofenrichment/

In home enrichment, training and play is really tiring for a dog just as much as a walk.

 

[baohomotorprovn250932]

@monk58 Thank you. I didn’t consider a behaviorist, I’m going to email my vet. He’s excellent on walks when we get lucky and have no triggers. He knows heel, sits on command to wait before we cross a street. He knows leave it and drop it, and he obeys. He’s s really good boy, but all bets are off if we encounter another dog with no escape route. The funny thing is, he likes other dogs. If nothing else, I’d love to understand why he’s like this. I’ve had him since he was 3 mos old and I can’t connect anything to the behavior.

 

[mama357]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Some breeds of dogs are prone to dog reactiveness, it can "pop up" around sexual maturity, typically around 1.5 to 3 years old. Aka puberty.

Also your dog may not actually not like dogs like you think. I'm reminded the Episode of me or the dog, where the owner was convinced her dog loved doggy day care. The dog, in reality did not.

Your dog could also be resource guarding you?

 

[monk58]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Hi OP

Have you ever heard of a "frustrated greeter" as a type of reactivity?

Just I have one of those... it looks dreadful and sounds exactly like aggression or fear reactivty however like yours my dog actually loves other dogs... he just gets immensely frustrated by being held back by the leash from greeting them

If he does greet them he is way too aroused and it can spook him and the other dog and be a poor interaction

He is very well behaved other than this just highly excitable and aroused and doesn't have triggers other than dogs

Well prey drive but that isn't reactivity

Google frustrated greeter and see what you think. It is often an overlap into barrier frustration when they see another dog

This is a really good free video series that focuses on manging walks so the dog is below threshold and techniques for interrupting their arousal before they reach the unthinking stage

I still think you are right to think about reducing or stopping walks while you seek out a behaviourist and learn new techniques of behaviour modification for your dog... your aim is to be able to help them learn to self regulated and it takes time

Stopping the dog practicing going over threshold when it sees another dog is a key first step. Let their stress hormones fade and recover your own health

You can train and practice a lot of impulse control techniques at home.. every thing builds up and helps the dog self regulate.

A good behaviourist or behavourist level trainer will give you so much confidence with this.

 

[davecave]

@monk58 But what if you can't afford a behaviorist? Every vet we've been to recommended it, but they are hundreds of dollars per hour. Plus our first attempt at training classes didn't work out well; he was fine for four weeks then just completely lost interest and stopped responding to any commands, even offers of a treat/reward were ignored. I'm ready to get my dog on meds, he 9 years old and has degenerative joint disease, so any lunging or running takeoffs can do him real damage now. I've always been hesitant before, I've see those meds do strange things to the humans in my life.

 

[monk58]

@davecave I am not in the US... I understand from posters that if your vet doesn't want to prescribe then many suggest seeking our a fear free certified vet who might be more inclined

Some behaviourists do online remote consults and follow ups and work with your vet and that can be more affordable.. it might be an option to explore

I actually haven't needed a behaviour vet... I was lucky and got recommended to a behaviourist trainer and mine is fairly straightforward and we have no t yet considered medication really. He is still making progress and building impulse control as he matures (he has reached 4 now and we started behaviour modification at 20 months)

If you can find a trainer who has done good courses and qualifications and is at that level it can be more affordable.

The thing about reactivity is you do need someone to work out the emotional reason why they are reacting. Normal dog type training focused on actions and obedience is useful but reactivity requires more and lots of time and management and real bond and handling your dog in specific ways/ setting up routines and enrichment

It is a long term progress and even non reactive dogs never stop training or working on normal routines... it is just life with a dog.. similar to what happens with horses. It is lifelong

I hope you can work out how to help your dog... trying to manage his environment to keep him below threshold most of the time might be the way to go

I can't really comment on behaviour meds.. I don't mistrust them though becasue every case is individual and unique... what doesn't work for one person or dog might be absolutely something that hits the spot for another. It is like so many things.. individual.

 

[ruzou]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Honestly I hate neighborhood walks and so does my dog. Its harder for her to ignore other reactive dogs across the street but when we are at the park/hiking trails she is a lot more calm and overall unbothered at any distance. We also walk on a long-line quite frequently in open spaces and she enjoys it a lot more than short lead walks.

I do neighborhood walks occasionally but usually early mornings or when its less busy walking times just so she keeps up her short lead walking skills.

 

[bonbon87]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Your dog probably isn’t having enough time to reduce the stress hormones between walks. Driving to a quiet area once a day or every other day is going to be so beneficial for you both and build up confidence again. Once my dog has had a walk with multiple triggers it’s a write off for a while. It can take 3 days for the cortisol to reduce. Sniffspots are great, longer leash sniff walks in huge visible fields are great. Some dogs just aren’t cut out for neighbourhood walks and passing other dogs in close proximity. My dog also loves walks but quality over quantity is so much better for you both. Trainers are good but you can’t train out a dogs genetics and good management is key. Muzzle training is an excellent deterrent to other ‘friendly’ dog walkers too. My dog has trazadone for particularly stressful times and it just brings her down from being at 110%. Others have great success with Prozac for dogs all of which aren’t a quick fix but just enable your dog to be calm enough to make good decisions and actually listen to the training you’ve both worked so hard on. On a good day my dog is perfect, on a bad day I’d swear she was completely deaf and all our training goes out the window! Speak to a veterinary behaviourist and continue with reactivity training. It can and will get better for you both.

 

[dike]

@baohomotorprovn250932 We don't walk in our neighborhood. I like cemeteries for wandering instead.

 

[helpmegod00]

@baohomotorprovn250932 If it were up to me, my dog would not get walked all the time (2-3 times a day), but he gets incredibly bored with our front and back yard because neither are big and spacious, so it’s minimum 2 walks a day usually. He can be reactive on walks with strangers and other dogs, and has pulled and lunged and nearly broken my damn bones. What has helped us is training, rewarding for sitting and looking and ONLY that, and doing early morning and later night walks. I know you said he’s gotten tons of training, but every dog is different and once they hit their threshold it’s hard to recover from. Usually towards the end of my dogs walk he hits it without being triggered by anything and it can be a terrible process just to get him back to the house. Try indoor and yard activities and see if your dog is ok with it! It might be something he enjoys more.

 

[lockinyour]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Absolutely, reducing walks in stressful environments was one of the best things I ever chose for us. Dial up the indoor (mental and physical) exercise and use every opportunity you get for decompression walks out in nature or in safe enclosed spaces. My dog got so much better after that

 

[shemiyah]

@baohomotorprovn250932 We drive away from home to a place to walk. I am so sorry as I completely understand what you are going through. We all have bad days and its ok!! you are doing amazing.

 

[citfield]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Late night and early morning walks.
Hands free leash.
Try renting at Sniffspot.com. You'll have your own area to play.
Nose work is good too.
Avoiding dogs, controlling contact distance to give you both a break is good too.

 

[authormargaretrosefrancis]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Three times a day is a lot, especially if he's getting triggered all the time. When my dog was getting triggered every walk we did three walks but only 5-10 minutes each to get it down to something manageable so that her experiences outside were consistently good (or at least not bad). If we had a yard this probably would've been even less.

Now we are able 30-45 minutes twice a day and we walk during off times, 2-3pm and also 10-11pm to reduce triggers and she has a reaction maybe once a week and mostly provoked.

 

[novicedog]

@baohomotorprovn250932 I throw the ball for my dog because he loves it and nothing can get his attention away from it enough for him to react. If we go on a walk it’s literally a 5-10 minute excursion up and down the same area where I know there will be no barking dogs or other triggers. He’s happy and relaxed, can sniff things, and it’s enough enrichment. Any more and he just gets anxious.

All of my past dogs have been fine now any situation and I took them with me everywhere. I’m sad it’s not the same for my current dog, but I’ve adapted our activities so that he’s happy and I’m relaxed. The only real downside is having to board him at a place he likes, rather than taking him on vacations where there is no way to control the environment enough for him.

 

[inneed1012]

@baohomotorprovn250932 Can I ask what your routine is for passing other dogs? I don’t know your dog but our trainer has managed to successfully train like 95% of the dogs that go through her program if the handlers work through her steps. Maybe I could try to spell it out for you if your current routine isn’t working and isn’t what she already suggests.

 

[christianguy00910]

@baohomotorprovn250932 I had an extremely leash reactive German shothsir pointer mix for many years.

Two suggestions: 1-get a leash you can wrap around your torso/hips. At my heaviest, I was 5 times heavier than her. She could still make me wipe out even in her old age if she was triggered. I learned to use my weight to my advantage, and anchor the leash to my torso (in addition to my hand/wrist). She broke one of my friend's hand because she had wrapped the leash around her hand, and my dog saw an "enemy" and had to save us. I started anchoring the leash to my person after that.

2- change the times you go out. It isn't convenient, but it will make everything easier. We had to move our walk times to avoid triggers. So we did early morning walks (like, 530 am, before the commuters and mommies emerged for the day) and late night runs (like 9 pm, sometimes as late as 1030). We were fortunate to have a really nice, several acre dog park near by, so for lunch I'd take her there(she enjoyed other dogs and people, but just could NOT meet them on leash).

I also became a master of off road adventures with her. We had a few forest preserves in the surrounding towns, so I got a good pair of hiking shoes and we'd go off path into the trees. She LOVED being able to sniff ALL THE THINGS, and we rarely ran into people or other dogs (squirrels and deer were another story though).

 

[marsbars]

@baohomotorprovn250932 My dog gets his walks very early in the morning and fairly late at night to avoid others.

That said, have you considered anxiety meds? It's worth discussing with your vet. I was hesitant for all the same reasons people are hesitant to get themselves medicated, but it puts him at a more normal baseline to make decisions and react to stressors from.

 

[msgtcjl]

@baohomotorprovn250932 If you have the capacity hire a behavior manager who is certified in fear free dog training. Also, a vet behaviorist. We STUGGLED for a solid 2 years with our boy. After the behavior manager and vet behaviorist he is a completely different dog. It cost a pretty penny, but we have pet insurance so it covered the vet stuff. I empathize with you on another level! I am sending you all my good vibes and I hope you can find a nice middle ground for both you and your pup!