Is BE the only option?

[sarahtoo]

@wabj68 Dogs thinking they have to be on constant alert on walks are not as happy as dogs with clear boundries who know their owners can handle things. Note where I said "We dont punish fear responses". If a dog is displaying defensive aggression for no good reason instead of fear reactive aggression thats a choice they are making, a bad choice and they need to know that.

Trouble is telling the difference between the two is useally hard so I wouldn't recommend punishments to someone over the internet or it could make things worse if its actually a fear response. Stick to counter conditioning and at least it wont mess things up more if not 100% sure of the cause. In this case the OP was asking about a professional trainer possibly useing those methods, not just "my dog is reactive should I punish him?"

 

[wabj68]

@sarahtoo

Dogs thinking they have to be on constant alert on walks are not as happy as dogs with clear boundries

Again it is very possible to set clear boundaries without using pain or fear as a training tool. Nobody is saying all bad behaviour should be ignored but there are ways of addressing it that don't hurt or scare the dog. If you are relying on fear to train your dog yes it might work quickly but that dog will absolutely be on constant alert because it's frightened of the person it's tethered to. It's not stopped acting out because it isn't stressed, it's stopped acting out because it's fear has been redirected to you. "Counter conditioning" doesn't undo the fear your dog now feels toward you

 

[sarahtoo]

@wabj68 Yeah shes petrified of me, so much so she jumps on he sofa and tried to hump my back out of sheer terror (yeah I know I should stop her but I am too busy laughing). Likes piggy back rides around the house too so its hard to know what shes jumping up for untill its too late.

Barking at me to play and wanting to do training all the time, she must be afraid I will abuse her if I get bored so wants to keep me busy all day. I see now.

 

[wabj68]

@sarahtoo I'm sure aggressive humping is completely hilarious but something that should be dealt with really. It's fine though, when she starts biting or hurting or it gets annoying you will just choke her out of it, right? When you're in a situation where she fears she will be "corrected" in that moment she is afraid of you. If you "correct" with a choke device every time she bites you, she will feel fear every time she thinks of doing it, not a genuine desire not to. She will be on edge in that moment. If you have a reactive dog who is choked every time they react, they will be on edge because they're scared even if they are behaving. Besides not being a good way for an animal to live, this has a big potential to cause more issues down the line

 

[sarahtoo]

@wabj68 She used to bite like a little hellhound with all the positive only stuff. Anyway back on topic perhaps.

So you think its better the OP just have there dog put to sleep instead of trying a trainer who MIGHT use use some corrections after already spending a fortune on R+ only trainers who clearly haven't helped much?

 

[wabj68]

@sarahtoo Op has stated in their comments they haven't used an actual accredited behaviourist. Perhaps they should start there. Imo if a dog's dangerous behaviour is so severe cannot be stopped with anything short of choking or electrocution for the rest of their lives then I feel euthanasia may be the kindest and safest option for everyone

 

[sarahtoo]

I started a post over on r/OpenDogTraining if anyone wants to discuss this further (OP pls take a look at what people are saying over there). R+ Vs. Balanced. Anyone can talk about any methods or equipment they like there.

 

[imchance]

@phyllis17 The second was not an accident. That’s aggression.

 

[ldarlingt]

@phyllis17 Maybe your dog needs an outlet for those breed trait behaviors? I.e. herding and nipping

 

[angelluve]

@phyllis17 No. Its not. I'm sorry, but were you not aware that cattle dogs of any kind were essentially bred to bite? Also known as heelers, meaning goodbye to your heels.

It sounds like your dog is frustrated because it isn't doing enough to expend its energy. It isn't the dogs fault, because the dog is Bred. To. Chase and Bite. It's in the dogs very essence. Training and structure can help, but ultimately you need to work your dog and work with your dog. You aren't controlling your dog if you're allowing it to bite people. Leash and muzzle. Treats, rules, guidance and stimulation. If you can't find time for your dog, find a ranch with an experienced handler and let the dog do what it was bred to do.

 

[smjd45]

@phyllis17 If you're still open to working with another trainer, you could reach out to @Adkgrcclub on IG and see if they have any recs. I personally am not part of any GRC club but I know the trainers who run the Massachusetts clubs and they are awesome. My impression is that GRC trainers tend to be balanced with a heavy emphasis on R+.