I'm pretty sure someone stole my dog

[johnskat]

....and swapped him with better one.

Background:

Jake was my first dog as an adult. I did a lot of independent research, and even took a basic obedience class around the time he turned 1, but never really clicked with the trainer, and didn't learn much in class.

I had a dog as a kid who was reactive to everything and every one because she wasn't socialized at all.

So I did the opposite with Jake--ala /r/puppy101 I socialized him to everything and made sure everything was a good, exciting, positive experience. I set a goal to try and have him meet 100 dogs in 100 days after he was vaccinated. We blew that out of the water. Sounds great, right? Jake is happy to meet people, he plays great with other dogs, etc etc.

Except it wasn't.

Jake became extremely reactive if he wasn't able to go do what he wanted. Frustration and excitement led to pretty extreme anxiety when on a leash or in an unfamiliar place. Whining, barking, hackles up, insecure. It was miserable to try and take him anywhere. I'd inadvertently reward his reacticvity by letting him do what he wanted--he'd go say hello, and then be pretty much fine, if not still pretty excited.

A non-comprehensive list of things I never thought Jake would be capable of:

Jake actually walking calmly on a leash.

Jake being able to think and be calm when I'm holding a chuck it.

Jake being able to hold a down stay around other dogs, people, distractions.

Jake being able to chill when I tie him to something and walk away.

Jake being able to calmly exit the house.

Jake being able to go to the vet without whining, drooling, excessive panting.

Jake not reacting to strangers (especially men) talking to me.

Jake being able to ride in the car without constantly whining and barking.

Jake being able to settle when visiting family. Or when family visits us.

Jake having a reliable off leash recall around people, dogs, wildlife, and other distractions.

A year ago, none of these things were possible. We've had wins on all of these lately.

Last summer I got a puppy, Finn. He's super crazy and drivey. I decided to take a puppy class with him, because I wasn't able to get engagement out of him. My new trainers were great (and got me completely hooked, Finn and I (and sometimes Jake ) are doing dog sports). It completely changed my relationship with the puppy, and I eventually took an advanced OB class with Jake as well. They taught me how to use training tools properly, and how to start fixing Jake's behavior.

In Jake's first set of classes, he learned to hold a down stay, around other dogs, pretty calmly.

In the last few weeks we have had some really great milestones:

Jake became great when going for a walk.

Jake was practicing down stays at a park near our home. He held a down stay while a reactive dog (who was on a flexi and padded harness ) charged him and barked in his face. He whined a little, but looked to me for support and held his stay.

That same day, I had Jake down in a different spot, where he couldn't really see or hear what was coming from behind. A male cyclist came out from behind him and surprised him. He didn't react. Head checked the dude and then focused on me. I was at least 50ft from him.

At the lake this past weekend, Jake was able to hold a calm down, despite a ton of distractions. Including me holding a chuck it so we could play fetch and he could swim.

And another, where Jake was calm in a stay at the lake despite having to take turns to retrieve and the puppy vibrating with excitement right next to him.

Last night, Finn had an advanced OB class, at the trailhead of this pretty popular area. I brought jake, back tied him to a tree ~100ft away, and put him in a down. He was right off the trail where off leash dogs, cyclists, kids, and all sorts of other people were passing by. He was a little whiny at first but settled really quickly after a few low stim ecollar corrections. He held his down, didn't react to anyone or anything the entire hour that I had him there. He was just calm in a down stay, even resting his head on his paws. I checked on him periodically to reward with some of his kibble (which he will now take in high distraction environments), but was mostly able to ignore him and focus on the puppy.

Y'all, I am just SO PROUD of this dog. He's in such a calm state of mind now where before he would be losing his shit. He's not perfect and we still have a lot of work to do, but getting where I want him to be seems achievable in a way it didn't a year ago.

Jake will be 3 in a few days, and I'm so excited to have so many years ahead of us with a dog that I can take places and do things with, without it being a stressful ordeal.

TLR; Invasion of the Body Snatchers, but with dogs.

 

[7thdayrest]

@johnskat Bravo!!!!!!!! I love hearing stories like this, especially when I had to unsub from the Dogs subreddit today bc I’m so tired of seeing (some, very rightfully) clueless people having problems and others commenting with “solutions” (things like avoiding training tools, ignoring the dog, etc) that don’t get results like this. It makes life with your dog a constant struggle.

I have long given up commenting with any advice; it spirals me down a hole where nobody actually listens and it sucks bc I really only want to help them achieve results like this. Good on you for taking things into your own hands and doing the research and implementing those changes to help your dog!!!! Yes yes yes to all of this. Enjoy your life together

 

[johnskat]

@7thdayrest Oh I feel you. I still post and try to educate people when I have the energy. I think the people that argue tend to be a very aggressive and vocal minority. People don't respond in support bc they don't want to deal with it (don't blame them) but the votes on comments show people exist that are reasonable, even if they don't engage in the conversation. So long as advocates of balanced training, or responsible breeding, or anything dog related, keep their cool, and stay informational rather than berating people that are wrong or otherwise ignorant, I think it's important conversations to have.

I got into a conversation the other day about silver labs & ethical breeding--the people name calling and being defensive got downvoted while my comments that stayed informational (and reasonable) got upvoted.

But also lol don't blame anyone who doesn't want to fight that fight.

 

[7thdayrest]

@johnskat Absolutely.

There was a time when I was a professional trainer, having worked for several different institutions with their own philosophies etc. It used to be my job to make these arguments to people, to stand up for helping them have a better relationship and communication with their dog. I used to have no problem doing that when I was rightfully paid for it lol But since people don’t often take advice they didn’t pay for, I can no longer spare the extra spoons for what seems like a never-ending battle for education.

When I can’t, I just try to upvote posts and comments like yours so that hopefully we can continue to spread helpful information to those who might need it cheers to you!

 

[lizy424]

@johnskat Jake could just as easily be thinking who swapped my human for one who communicates perfectly to me!

So happy to see a post like this because my boy Cooper sounds so similar to your Jake it's not funny.

Can I ask what specifically you look for in an advanced obedience class that worked for you and Jake? I have been wanting to enrol with Cooper but I get anxious when trying to decide what philosophies the trainer uses.

Finn and Jake are lucky to have a great, dedicated partner in you.

 

[johnskat]

@lizy424 I think the big thing is look for local small business type trainers--and balanced trainers at that. I 100% believe Jake would have never improved so much if we hadn't learned how to use a prong collar.

I would look for someone with a lot of word of mouth type reviews. If you're in a local pet group on Facebook, who gets recommended over and over when someone asks for a trainer?

Also look for people that offer reactive dog classes/rehab. And don't be afraid to ask to observe a class. I think observing a reactive dog class specifically is super useful--you get to see how they handle their most difficult dogs.

I know for me, it turned my stomach a little bit with how firm I had to be with Jake in the beginning. He got so used to working all over me, that he threw some pretty epic tantrums when that didn't work anymore. So be prepared for that I guess lol. Jake screamed and alligator rolled the first time he got any prong pressure, and it wasn't fun to be on the other end of the leash. He figured it out pretty quick though. But the boundaries and consistency has clearly paid off.

 

[camillerose]

@johnskat What a great turn around! I read your comments too and you sound like you know what you are taking about and are a nice person.
Can I ask you some advice?
I have a 2yro LabxRetreiver. I use a gentle leader with her and she is really good walking with no stim, I use treats to get her to focus.
But as soon as she sees a dog she starts barking like crazy and pulling and doesn’t care about the treats. She wants to “say hi” to all the dogs, I normally don’t stop and basically try to walk past as fast as I can with her close to me. If she does meet another dog she is very submissive.
I’ve done basic puppy 101 training and family and friends have dogs she gets to be around socially.
Any advice what I can do to stop her? Tastier treats? Prong collar? Try to have her sit and let the other dog pass? I feel like every time this happens I’m re-enforcing something I shouldn’t be...
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[johnskat]

@camillerose So it's kinda sketch to give advice on reactivity without seeing the dog. I would super recommend you get with a balanced trainer for an evaluation.

But based on what you've said, I'd start with tastier treats, and actually stopping and asking for a sit (or even just focus on you) while the other dog passes. Stop movement and ask for calm.

In this type of situation with Jake, treats (even hotdog, dried liver, cheese, etc) weren't enough. So it took adding a correction (in the form of prong collars first, then eventually a slip lead)--basically, stopping, asking for a calm sit with focus, and then applying a correction until I got it, then immediately releasing pressure and rewarding focus on me. Eventually asking for longer and longer duration on the focus.

But if you've never used an aversive before, I would really recommend getting a trainer. It's so hard to just wing it as a novice and so easy to screw up. You want to make sure you teach the dog how to turn off the corrections etc and all sorts of stuff that really takes an experienced eye to evaluate your particular situation.

 

[camillerose]

@johnskat Okay, this is helpful. Thank you. I felt weird asking, but I’m trying to learn
Beatrix is my first dog (ever) and I am such a noob. I didn’t actually realize she was reactive until recently.
I don’t feel comfortable using an aversion without proper training, so I will work on her focus. Thanks again.

 

[johnskat]

@camillerose Yeah honestly I would follow the typical +R approach, just make sure you're only rewarding when she is focused on you. Keep her under threshold, slowly start asking for more and make it more challenging. That should help a lot--badically you're trying to teach her that anytime something that she wants to react to walks by, she should instead look to you for guidance.

Also never do on leash greetings with people or dogs--itll just make it harder to get what you want from her.

I'd still look for a balanced trainer, but in the meantime you can keep making progress. For Jake, the aversive really helped cut through the crap that his brain was doing and allowed him to get at least partially clear headed, then we would reward that state of mind. Think like in the movies when someone is basically having a panic attack and panic rambling about the issue and someone smacks them. It cuts through that unstable mindset and lets them come back to reality.

 

[camillerose]

@johnskat Haha, the face slap is a good analogy!
I was wondering about leash greetings. I guess it is reinforcing the behaviour I don’t want. It doesn’t happen a lot, but it does happen.

I think I might have to get some more professional training when the situation we shall not mention is over.