I’m just feeling so lost. What is next?

[1rcchopper]

@jamiem I have a rottie/mal/gsd mix and even though she's pretty quiet and obedient when we're outside, people do not approach her (black dog syndrome). She's more people reactive. How are your emotions during these events? My dog is so tuned into me cause I'm her emotional support person that if I'm internally nervous she will be to.

 

[jamiem]

@1rcchopper I admit I get anxious and overwhelmed. Because of her overactive behavior I’m fearful of interactions. But I try to project confidence and authority for her sake because I do believe that my nervousness almost makes her feel like she needs to protect me or like she needs to take control. Even in situations where I’m not stressed or overwhelmed, she will still overreact.

 

[kurat]

@jamiem Have you talked to the breeder about these struggles? A good experienced breeder should be able to offer advice and suggestions. The fact they sold a Rottweiler puppy to a first time dog owner in an apartment makes me pause, so hopefully it was a reputable breeder. It’s always possible your dog has iffy genetic tendencies. Did you meet any of your pup’s relatives? Purchasing these large guardian breeds from a reputable breeder is sooo important.

 

[jamiem]

@kurat Hello! I did get to meet mom and dad. And I don’t know why, but your comment just prompted me to remember that dad was pretty reactive to us, but I didn’t pay it mind because mom was so chill. It was mom’s second and last litter. They were just pets for the breeder, mildly livestock guardians over some chickens. Nothing big or major. It wasn’t a “backyard breeder” situation or someone looking to make money. We found her well cared for and happy. The owner just didn’t want a dozen rotties running around. She was nice. I haven’t been in contact with her since, and I haven’t met siblings. We did select her because she was the most chill out of her siblings.

But yes. I would have appreciated someone telling my husband and I “no” to a rottie in an apartment. I love her so much, she’s my heart and joy, but we are moving to a house with a yard ASAP. I just didn’t know, and I agreed to a rottie because my husband has always wanted one and loves the breed, and when I spoke to people around me, no one told me no. I kind of wish they had, but I have her now and she’s my responsibility. I refuse to give up on her.

 

[kurat]

@jamiem I hate to say it, but it doesn’t sound like the most reputable of breeders. That’s kind of a textbook “backyard breeder” scenario. I’m guessing they didn’t do OFA clearances and what not on the parents. Dad dog being reactive is not a good sign. Even if the mother dog was chill, your puppy inherited half her genes from the reactive dog. This could very well be ingrained genetic behavior that you can manage but never “fix” if that makes sense.

An IAABC accredited behaviorist is where I would turn. They can be pricey. R/dogtraining has really good info about where/how to find experienced help. They can work with you on management practices, possibly medication, etc.

With a breed as powerful as a Rottweiler, I would be extremely careful. Even if there hasn’t been a bite incident yet, all it takes is one time for a stranger to pop out suddenly at the park, a neighbor kid to run up, a maintenance person to come by. Until you have professional help guiding you, I would keep her totally away from parks and public spaces. There is no room for error here.

 

[jamiem]

@kurat You know what, I appreciate someone saying it, because I thought it was normal.

Believe me, I am hyper aware that there is no room for error, which is why I just keeping trying. She’s my responsibility, and I’m not going to put her in a situation that puts her or others at risk. If it is your opinion that we need to seek assistance from a behaviorist, I’m willing to take that advice.

The good news is that she’s not going to have puppies. She’s going to be spayed, so any iffy things with her ancestry will end with her. I don’t even know about the accreditations as clearances that you’re talking about, which I now know is not good. I thought I did research before getting her, but clearly I didn’t do enough.

Thank you for your honesty, I appreciate it.

 

[christopherb]

@jamiem Don't feel bad. Dog training is an unregulated field and there's a lot of bad information out there. These private certifications are a way to protect consumers and their pets, but they're not law, so it's hard to get the word out. I agree that IAABC is the way to go here. Either ADT (lower level) or CDBC (higher level). Many reactivity trainers work virtually, because that format works really well for reactivity. They don't need to be hands on with your dog.

 

[davecb]

@jamiem

It wasn’t a “backyard breeder” situation or someone looking to make money.

It sort of was though? If you had asked the breeder, "why are you producing puppies", what sort of answer would you have gotten?

Rotties are a tough breed to do well, especially for pet homes. A good breeder probably would not have sold a first time pet owner, in an apartment, a Rottie puppy.

 

[simsons]

@jamiem Agree this definitely sounds like time for medication. You’ve tried so hard-no shame in asking for help! Better living through chemistry!

 

[cheloi]

@jamiem A couple of things, coming from someone who was once in a very similar situation to yours albeit with a rescued Rottweiler:

• Definitely speak to your vet about medication. It's cheap and it'll improve both her quality of life as well as yours, and ideally it'll raise her threshold so that she's not getting overwhelmed every time you go outside.
• Broadly, this guide from Noble Woof is a really good resource for reactivity, and in particular we used the Engage/Disengage game to try and help build her confidence around any scary things.
• I would encourage investing in a trainer, though - counterintuitively I think it would be easier to go DIY if you were doing this on your own, but you and your husband need to be consistent about what you're doing. Having a trainer tell you what to do will make that much easier, in addition to all of the obvious benefits that will come along with hiring one.
• You mentioned that you just let her exist in spaces to build her confidence. Are you rewarding that behavior? Are you increasing the level of "difficulty"? Dogs don't generalize well - it's one thing to sit in a quiet park in the middle of nowhere, but that behavior won't necessarily carry over to a busier environment. I'm not going to tell you to put your dog in a down at a busy intersection, but if you don't already definitely start rewarding her for being neutral and slowly introduce new environments.
• Be patient. It's cliche and definitely the hardest part of everything, but it's the truth. It's going to take a lot of work and consistency, but it sounds like your heart is in the right place. Just remind yourself that change isn't going to happen overnight, and there will definitely be peaks and valleys.

Shoot me a message if you wanna talk about any of this, would be happy to chat about my experiences.

 

[kateey]

@jamiem Hey - I wanted to reply a few days ago but I also wanted to read through advice in this thread in case I gave you anything that had already been covered, and I don't think this has directly yet so I wanted to point it out.

Firstly, make sure to give yourself time as well away from the dog and looking after yourself. It's true that they pick up on our emotions, things like frustration (even if it's not AT the dog but at the situation). Give the dog something to keep them busy in their crate and look after yourself.

Secondly, you said she's a year old. I know she's big and strong, but she is still mentally just a puppy and the world is still new to her! This is a great opportunity for you both to bond, once you've looked after your own needs! A lot of what you're saying could be youth and inexperience vs a traumatic experience (not discounting that it is scary when she reacts, of course!)

I have a largeish dog who we have been working with since we adopted him a year ago. He is reactive only on leash and we've isolated it to primarily dogs, though he has also mistaken prams/strollers, carts, scooters and people for his triggers The things you're saying about how your girl is unpredictably reactive? Totally relate. Super happy in one situation with the neighbour's dog and then frenzied creature from hell in what seemed like the exact same situation another day.

The things we've worked on that are working for us - and I know this isn't going to apply to everyone, nor am I a trainer, so just think of this as possible other ideas:

- Impulse control. From day 1 I worked on waiting before dinner, doing the 'its yer choice' game, a trick (eg sit) before kicking his ball/playing any games. Helping him understand that he can think before doing.

- Engage/Disengage. This sounds like what you were doing by just existing with her, but in a structured way and building up over time. For me this was standing 100ft away from a dog park and rewarding every time he looked over at the dogs, then moving closer by 5ft, repeating a few times, then going home. Then the next day we'd start at say, 90ft and work closer. I think about it like 'building up his resilience to weird things happening', really slowly. The goal is to NOT react - so if he gets too amped, we take a step back. Oh and for this I had to use GOOD treats, not just kibble. (Think hotdogs, chicken, steak etc)

- 'Let's go!' (changing direction when on leash unexpectedly, saying the cue, and working up til he just responds without pressure on the leash). Basically this is my 'get out of dodge' technique if I need to change direction to get away from a trigger. You mentioned her reactivity to dog shaped objects - this skill helps you both avoid those entirely if you can vs her staring at them.

- Lots of 'chill out' games: scatter feeding at home in grass or in a toybox, snuffle mats, frozen kongs, lick mats, mat games, etc. Helping him regulate his own emotions.

The biggest 'aha' moment for me was realising he's unpredictable and reactive because he's anxious and he has no good alternative behaviour than freaking out on leash, so my focus has been building up his confidence and also in turning to me rather than lashing out at the 'thing'. I also get really embarrassed trying to get past people with a crazy dog on a rope so I have been working on how I react/respond in those situations too. And I don't use aversive tools because I think they're counterproductive to building confidence the way I want to.

Some dogs are reactive for other reasons, so the other advice about talking to your vet, seeing a trainer or behaviourist etc are good!

I had to go find the pic of your pup..she's beautiful

 

[jamiem]

@kateey Thank you so much for all of this, I can’t tell you how much it means to me. It’s genuinely so comforting to have everyone in this group tell me I’m not crazy and I’m not out of options. I feel so much better after reading the replies to my post. Thank you again for all your advice!

And thank you, I think she’s pretty too

 

[oceanwaves]

@jamiem Wow! My first dog was a Rottie too! They really are such a sweet breed, when they are in-tune and secure in themselves.

But they are very intelligent and stubborn. Originally a guarding breed and carting breed they are high drive workers and need serious direction. If she's learned she can be "pushy/stubborn" and manipulate her surroundings, that Rottie will do it! It absolutely doesn't help that people "feel weird" around her. I learned that, too, with my Rottie. People were just innately afraid of him, even though he ended up being a very well behaved guy until he died over 16 years ago. He was a big lug, but he looked terrifying (he was a mix of a German and American Rott, a "king" Rott I guess they call them.)

Here's what I did differently with my Rottie: I used an aversive tool (choke chain) along with positive reinforcement. He was always on a choke chain. I never "negotiated" with his behavior, and if I didn't agree with what he was doing, he received a correction. The breed is willful and can handle a certain amount of bodily correction when timed expertly and reinforced properly. That is just my experience.

In this sub they frown upon aversive corrections, and I will say I do as well if it isn't done correctly. Your best bet at this time, I think, is to hire yourself a trainer. She is a highly driven and powerful dog and I think you need some outside perspective and help to get her under control before she gets any worse.

I love Rotties very much, I think they are a wonderful breed, but they DEFINITELY need a firm hand because THEY WILL BE THE FIRM HAND IF YOU AREN'T ONE!

That is just my opinion as a Rottie owner. I'm prepared to be downvoted to infinity for suggesting an aversive tool, but my Rottie lived until he was 9 (cancer ) and I used a choke chain his whole life and we never had an incident of him "reverting" or "exploding" as some suggest aversive tools eventually cause. He was a sweet, affectionate and well behaved dog until the day he died.

TLDR: hire a trainer and ask about different tools

 

[jamiem]

@oceanwaves Hi! I do use some aversive tools with her, and total meltdowns are currently handled with me leading her away and not allowing her to further engage with whatever she’s after. Currently I’m using a chest harness and a head harness to control her because she is INDEED willful and strong. Haven’t tried a choke collar/chain or any electric collars yet because I don’t know how to safely use them. Strictly positive reinforcement is just not really possible with her, and led to her being naughty. She knows that people are in charge, because she listens to our close friends and family when they command her. Things like “down” “sit” “go home” “come here” “leave it” and “take it” are commands she will take from the people within her “safe social circle” as we all it. Initially we only trained her to listen to us, but we found she was being pushy and naughty with our friends and family, so we’ve trained her to listen to them.

I appreciate everything you said, and I do think that asking a vet or trainer for advice and recommendations is a good step forward.

 

[gravityfades]

@jamiem Feel free to send me a pm, I was in identical situation except my dog is also reactive to people. All people.

Now she goes on a walk everyday! She'll never go to a dog park but she can get through walks with dogs and people on the other side of the street, and people on the same sidewalk. This is so exciting for us!

Send me a msg if you need any more info or support

 

[servant1021]

@jamiem You might talk to a vet about meds although it likely won't solve the problem entirely. Also I had A LOT of success with Training Between the Ears after having tried everything else (from positive to balanced to BAT to CAT and control unleashed methods and yank-and-crank style and obedience and extra exercise and have the dog "jobs" to do to keep her mentally stimulated and so on and so on). You can always join their Facebook group to get a sense of how they train, and they have a free mini course on a technique called the behavioral down which actually it sounds like your dog would really benefit from (it's very different from place work). I had a mess of a dog that was headed for BE before I found them.

Good luck. I know what it's like to be in your shoes. I was there a mere 14 months ago so I still remember the stress of it all very well. I hope you find the thing that finally helps.