How do you build respect with you dog?

[froggyfan1]

@shpchvr Not sure what your potty routine is with your dog, but I can only assume she got up needing to potty. I think you should practice developing a good break command along with the place command.

Australian Sheppard is a working breed and working breeds need jobs or else they can be very stubborn and mischievous. I have a cattle dog and I make every training session a game (her reward is her favorite toy). For recall work I use her favorite treat (cheese).

My trainer uses correction tools such as the prong and e-collar, but also +R. I use my e-collar as a cue (notification kinda like on your phone) for her commands. For example: stim (lowest setting that my dog feels) > command. If my dog does not listen or is ignoring me due to a stronger stimulus, I slowly increase her stim level until her attention has returned to me.

Most of my leash corrections happen on leash during a walk. I especially use it during heel work. When practicing heel and building engagement for heel, I make random turns and give a small pop as I turn (it actually occurs from the dog not following so basically they turned on the pressure.) When using leash pressure, it's important to release the pressure when the dog is doing what you want.

As far as corrections go, I give the correction when the dog is not doing what I told him to do. When they comply, you gotta have a big party so they know they did good.

I would work with a trainer in this method so you learn the best way to perform without destroying your relation ship. Train lots and make your dog work. Practice the 3 Ds (distance, distraction, duration), these must be worked up to. If you never trained the place command, then it's stupid to expect the dog to stay there for a long time but it helps to give them something to do like a stuffed kong or chew. If they leave, send them back but have a party for doing what they were told.

I'm no professional trainer but I love working with my dog. Don't take my words as the rules, but understand this is what worked for me. By building the bond, your build respect so try beginning your training session with a game and end with a game.

My favorite YouTube channels for this topic is:
Tom Davis
Michal Ellis
Shield K9

+R channels I like because they offer great foundation for teaching new things:
Kiko pup
Zac george
Victoria Stillwell

All my training for new commands begins with +R. When the dog understands the command, I introduce the e collar.

 

[aym]

@shpchvr Respect is best built by us respecting our dogs first and foremost. If we see a fear response from a correction, we have to respect our dog and dial back- maybe even to the point of eliminating- corrections. If we see a breakdown in our relationship, we must respect our dog and focus on relationship building before moving forward. Respect is built on trust and solid communication, and that's on us to provide.

You've gotten some great advice here. The key isn't a specific tool, it's to take a step back and really look at your relationship with your dog. She's telling you in every way she knows how that something is wrong, that she's upset and unsure. This isn't a dog testing boundaries, she's nervous because she's not sure where these boundaries even are and what's going to happen.

When we reach these points in our relationships, it's time to pause and reflect. Take the pressure off of both of you for some time, and focus on setting you both up for success. Focus more on having fun with your dog, and building that relationship up.

 

[chiere]

@shpchvr It sounds like you should take a break from corrections and go back to positive reinforcement and really focus on your timing of the rewards. Some of the behaviors you mentioned sound like “fallout” from the dog and like the dog is confused and doesn’t understand why it’s getting a correction. IMO corrections are ok for a dog that has high level of confidence and is not sensitive but if a dog is peeing themselves at the tone of your voice it’s a sign to back off and start over again with training with rewards and neutral/ happy tone of voice. Remember dogs react more to your body language than verbal ques.

As far as the question of gaining respect, telling your dog what to do all day won’t get you that. ASD we’re bred to herd, they need a JOB. Obviously you may not have livestock however doing ‘work’ such as playing fetch, taking them on runs, doing activities with your dog will help build that bond and change how they look at you as their leader.

Edit: I know where you’re coming from. I had a similar problem with my ACD who I took to a trainer who trained “police dogs” and taught us you gotta be alpha and the “leader” etc. He taught us we don’t ‘need to carry around treat bags’ and the ‘praise is the reward’ but I was always confused because in class my dog was the only one with his head down mean while the other GSD’s, Dobermans, malinois etc seemed fine. We had a similar instance where my wife tried to take out the dog using these methods and he peed himself and when talking to the trainer he seemed confused as to why he peed himself and was just like, that’s weird, he doesn’t do that with us. I realized later that this type of training only works for dogs that have high drive and are not sensitive but when I stopped correcting my dog harshly and rewarding him with more treats our relationship has improved greatly

 

[lawrenceryan]

@shpchvr You’ve gotten tons of good information on training, I’m going to tell you one of the things that has helped me and my dog build respect.

1. I taught her the cue “OUT” to release something in her mouth. (I used YouTube for this using a toy and verbal marking, no tools)
2. I taught her that trading toys with me was fun.
3. Now I randomly ask her to give me a toy she’s playing with a reward with praise and sometimes a treat. She’s learned that when I ask for something good things follow, even if she’s having fun with her toy at the moment.

I want to point out that you can’t just start taking things out of your dog’s mouth because that won’t build any training and you’ll sabotage the respect part. I love doing this exercise with my dog now. Sometimes she gets a treat but usually we just play with her toy. My dog also had some fear aggression and resource guarding tendencies when we adopted her about nine-ten months ago. I think these kinds of exercises really helped pull her out of that insecure mindset. She’s a great dog now… still a little stranger reactive, but mostly at home with guests. We can walk without reactions now.

 

[shpchvr]

@lawrenceryan She actually does this! “Give” is our command, she does it with food, toys, her ball (she’s obsessed!).

I didn’t provide enough clarity here and I should have. I’ve done so much great ground work, but was emotionally distraught seeing how scared she was last night. Need to rebuild.

Her dog reactivity is still a mystery to me. She doesn’t mind people in the house and only takes a minute to warm up now.

 

[lawrenceryan]

@shpchvr Building a rebuilding is a never-ending process with dog training. It really sounds like you’ve got a great grip on things. Just relax a little and give yourself and your dog the day off. Start again tomorrow! You got this.

 

[shpchvr]

@lawrenceryan Thanks! I know I have so much to learn, hence wanting a trainer in the first place. Its helpful to even hear some of the methods I am using are great things for her.

Thanks for your comment here in general. It’s extremely helpful.

 

[yackleen]

@shpchvr I personally had to use prong on my dog for a similar reason, no listening, didn’t want treats, anything unless we were working in my room. After some time with prong and thorough training with focus and eye contact inside, I removed the prong and have switched to positive reinforcement and it’s working really well this time! Maybe try starting from square one again because even though it’s annoying to have to do that, positive reinforcement truly does deliver that respect aspect that can be converted to fear or confusion with a prong or ecollar.

 

[shpchvr]

@yackleen This is super helpful advice actually, I mentioned at one point I essentially had started phasing out of the E collar.

We wear it for safety when off leash, otherwise just when we’re on casual walks. To help her redirect her stress when she sees another dog. I’m going to start with only doing positive reinforcement for the next couple of weeks, just to work on that repair and trust.

I’m going to be looking for another trainer in the mean time, while doing this.

 

[yackleen]

@shpchvr That sounds like a good plan!! I hope things work out well!

 

[shpchvr]

@yackleen Thank you again for your advice here.

 

[deonc]

@shpchvr I advise you to find a trainer that mostly does positive reinforcement. I'm glad you stopped working with that trainer, my last trainer was like yours and one of the best decisions I ever made was to stop going; my dog was just frustrated and didn't responded to corrections well (she never peed, but she would cry during the lessons non-stop). It will be hard at first, but it's worth it, the realtionship between you and your dog has just started to heal even if it doesn't look like it.
That is to say, find a trainer that mostly does positive reinforcement, Who is willing to adress the issues in a human and logical way and who can desensitaze your dog to the negative associations with corrections in general.
For now, give her time and a safe space to realx, as you did. If she can't handle corrections right now, try to redirect with a toy or kong. You said in your last post that positive reinforcement didn't work with her, didn't perpetuate desired behaviours, either way, find a balanced trainer that can focus on positive reinforcement and then, when your dog has gained more confidence, stop using that method as your primary one if you want.
Make training fun. My dog is very toy motivated, I'm working on "place" using a ball as a treat. Start slowly; one step forward, two steps back. Start with short periods of time (2 min on place, then 3 min, then 5, etc) and give her something valuable after (I usually give my dog her ball for a minute or so, then to place again).
It's not that your dog doesn't respect you, it sounds like she is insecure she is doing it wrong and is afraid of corrections.
Good luck with your pup!

 

[justasimplea]

@deonc

Make training fun.

This should be the cardinal rule for all dog training

 

[deonc]

@justasimplea I know, but it didn't sound like their dog enjoyed training

 

[justasimplea]

@deonc Exactly, too many people don't know, and as a result it's ineffective. You have to find a way to engage your dog's interest and sense of fun otherwise you may as well not bother

 

[deonc]

ENG is not my first language, so my grammar may be weird.

 

[americandeist]

@shpchvr Good lord !!!

So your dog is so terrified of you that she started peeing during most interactions? And yet you are doubling down on using punishments for her because you think she needs more respect?

I feel like there is something going wrong from the get go.

How much exercise are you giving the Australian shepherd? Or have in the past?

They are considered working dogs and if they don’t have a job they become neurotic and destructive and won’t listen well. They also tend to be very sensitive which this dog obviously is.

The dog has been pushed beyond being allowed to show fear reaction which was the barking and growling and nipping. Now the dog has given up including giving up her bladder control.

Maybe you are not the right owner for this dog. Maybe get this dog to someone who understands dogs and their language and can start the healing process.

I don’t know what to tell you other than that the dog needs a positive reinforcement treatment and less harsh tactics. The ecollar may have worked exactly because of that. It is not an emotional tool but just gives signals. Slamming the crate is a highly emotional and negative response and terrorizing for a sensitive dog.

Dogs don’t think, oh I respect this person so now I do everything they say like a robot. They think in matters or relationship, even in matters of transactions. This is a nice person I will also be nice. This person touches me harshly so I will also be harsh.

About positive reinforcement. If you can’t train an Aussie with treats you must be doing something wrong. Maybe didn’t practice enough. It takes a couple months at least to settle in… it’s not an overnight thing.

About your other dog being fine…. Huskies are as insensitive as a dog can be, so I am not surprised that you match well with the husky. Maybe the Australian shepherd just isn’t a good breed for you. They are wicked smart and need a lot of attention and they love training and working. (Actually that’s true for huskies for the most part) Difference is that Aussies falter in harsh environments. Like you could do one hand movement to get them to do a myriad of tricks, nosework, agility etc yet break them just as easily if that hand strikes them.

 

[shpchvr]

@americandeist You did not read the post in entirety if you are giving this advice.

My dog has been with me since 2019 and exhibited those behaviors upon adoption. After 6 months of training, with both positive reinforcement and e-collar, her fear aggression towards me and other people stopped.

I went to a “professional” trainer to seek additional support for her fear aggression with other dogs, and I clearly chose the wrong one.

My application of his methods are completely wrong and it’s regressed SPECIFICALLY using those methods. I also want to make sure its clear I AM NOT the one who slammed the crate, the trainer did.

My dog is terrified of these methods, and confused. I am rectifying the issue like i would with ANY relationship immediately.

I’m not re-homing my dog because I made a mistake advised from a professional. I am accountable and have immediately begun healing and will be prioritizing that daily and hourly with her only through positive reinforcement.

 

[americandeist]

@shpchvr Listen if that is so, I apologize but I am confused with what you are actually saying or asking.

You keep saying your dog doesn’t respect you. That you try to correct her by yelling no at her and by grabbing her by the collar. -> so that behavior is in the past and you won’t be doing that anymore?

You have received in the last post enough recommendations to use positive reinforcement methods, everyone here says to do that and focus on building a relationship. Yet you have specifically asked how to get your dog to respect you not how to build a relationship.

So I am the one misunderstanding because you actually meant building a relationship when you asked that you just called it something different?

So basically all the things that are being done to this dog are in the past now and you are rectifying the relationship immediately yet you haven’t mentioned a single item to build a relationship.

I stand by what I said, not every person fits every dog. And sure, this might not be true for you but it’s generally true and better to acknowledge sooner than later.

 

[shpchvr]

@americandeist It’s okay that you’re missing the context; I grabbed her collar just to move her off the dog bed, as soon as she felt threatened I let go. She nipped as a warning, and I headed that warning.

I’ve stated multiple times throughout multiple comments that I intend to continue my previous training methods which WERE built on relationship building.

The trainer I sought out directly told me it was about “teaching the dog to respect me” and advised these methods. This wasn’t a cruel attempt to ‘control’ my dog, it was me being distraught that my dog was afraid of me, frustrated his methods (a “professional”) weren’t working and just general guilt. I love my dogs. They are my version of children.

I’ve accomplished great training with her and sought out help that was incorrect. I didn’t abuse my dog, I trained improperly.

And to provide even further context, when he slammed her crate, and she peed, I asked him about it and he literally said, “that’s okay, she’s just scared, it takes time”.

I’m sure you can see how a supposed professional telling me that might lead me to continue to a training method. Hell, I was terrified of the e-collar and ONLY used positive reinforcement when I first got her. Yet the e-collar, when used properly, is a life saver and has been for her and I.

Take time to read into context before you decide to tell a complete stranger who’s emotionally distraught and being vulnerable to fix the problem ti just “rehome your dog”.

I knew people would pass judgement, but I am definitely going to provide context to hopefully receive more specific advice. I actually want to help my dog.