@happycamper843 A five month old dog is no longer a tiny baby that needs help to sleep on time. They're old enough to figure out when to sleep on their own, with some careful supervision from their owner of course. At this age they need to learn how to settle on their own, in different situations. So what if the dog sleeps on the couch or at your feet and a noise wakes him up? He needs to learn that noises are normal and to just go back to sleep without any fuss.
Keeping him locked up in a tiny box for 18 hours does nothing to teach the dog how to function as a member of your family, noises and interrupted naps and all. It's far too long to keep a dog of any age locked up, plain and simple.
I'm not against crates, not at all. I use them when I raise puppies, but always only as a tool to help in the first weeks with house breaking and naps. As soon as possible the door stays open so the puppy can actually learn on their own when to go to sleep. And if they want to sleep elsewhere, that's fine too. I've raised seven dogs this way and they all turned into social, well-adjusted family dogs.
@happycamper843 I know it’s not a popular sentiment on this subreddit and I don’t mind the downvotes I’ll get but I think the views on crating in North America need to change. 16-18 hours in a crate isn’t a good life for a dog.
I feel like it’s illegal in other countries for a reason.
@recovering I agree. They can be a useful temporary training tool, but they shouldn't be used excessively. (IMO, crating for 16 to 18 hours is super excessive.) A puppy needs to learn to settle in a variety of environments, and crates inhibit the development of this skill.
The amount of topics wondering why an older puppy who's been strictly crated all through infancy is a wild thing who can't settle at all outside of the crate is evidence of that.
@rainbow316 We free roamed throughout the day and crated of an night to sleep until I was confident she would be safe to sleep around the house and take herself outside to the toilet. Very glad to have managed it that way - a safe temporary solution.
@rainbow316 For some dogs the crate is necessary. My Aussie gets into everything. My apartment is puppy proofed, but he literally chews on the walls. I don’t want him eating plaster while I’m sleeping lol also when he sleeps outside of his crate, he gets almost no rest. We tried letting him sleep all the time outside his crate, but it didn’t work at all. He was so tired and grouchy the whole time..everyone was miserable. We also have another dog who disturbs his sleep,
Having said that though, that doesn’t mean he’s in his crate 16-18 hours a day, that is definitely excessive. Probably 7 hours at night and then 4-6 hours during the day depending on the length of his naps.
This thread has been enlightening though, It sounds like it might be best to have him nap outside the crate and sleep in the crate only at nights (or if he chooses to go in there). I definitely don’t want a pup that only knows how to settle in one specific place!
@thesensorystore I'm not sure why some people are suggesting that crate training will make a puppy unable to settle anywhere else. This isn't really a concern. Some puppies will have a harder time settling in general, and these are often the same puppies who need more crating for safety reasons, but that doesn't imply that the crating caused the puppy to be extra mischievous.
Whether you crate or not, the average puppy will typically need some training (whether informally or something like the relaxation protocol) to encourage settling down. It might need to be done much earlier for safety reasons if someone doesn't crate, but it can be taught at a later age too, or while still crating at other times.
@aaa Ah okay, well that’s good to hear. My pup has settling issues no matter what. My husband developed a night time crate routine that gets him to sleep in about 15 minutes, but we are hoping when he’s older he will just go to sleep on his own
@recovering I agree, crating habits brought up all the time here seems absurd to me. I don’t buy it that it is good for the dog being caged up constantly. Can easily (some dogs might need more training than others) get a dog to learn to relax outside of the crate anyway, and it needs to learn that. I get that it might be necessary while at work if the dog is destructive though.
@recovering It’s not generally forever, it’s mostly during their puppy months/years. Puppies need from 16-20 hours of guaranteed sleep to grow healthy. Mine won’t sleep that long unless I put him down for a nap in his crate. If he had his way he’d be up all day. Not only is that bad for his health, but it’s also bad for his temperament. Puppies that don’t rest for 16-20 hours can get over stimulated or tired. Causing issues like aggression or not wanting to train properly. It’s like a crib for a baby, just a safe area for guaranteed rest. Puppies also chew and get into things. I need to shower or cook dinner and not worry he’s going after a cord. He’s learning not to chew furniture or dangerous things, but it doesn’t happen over night. As much as I do feel guilty, it’s for the health and safety of my puppy. Crates can be a good tool to use if you don’t abuse it. He’s out and active the remainder of the day.
I should note he’s asleep the entire time he’s in there. He doesn’t wake up or play. It’s purely just sleep. He wakes up after 2 hours of napping to play and get some energy out. Then he needs another nap so he doesn’t become over tired/stimulated. Just like human babies need naps through the day
@happycamper843 Don’t feel guilty. A lot of puppies need to sleep for 18-20 hours a day and most won’t settle unless their crated. Mine will settle but she will wake up to any noise or movement if I just let her sleep on the couch.
I’ve been temporarily working on site at the property I live at and my fiancé runs for about 16 hours a day so I’ve been putting her in his office most of the day so she doesn’t feel alone and isn’t crated the whole time. She def naps still because she just gets so worn out from playing with office staff and other pups that pop in and out all day, but she also isn’t napping as well as she does in her crate and it’s shown in her attitude a lot.
@philip248 That's the issue I have right now. He'll try to sleep on the couch or on the floor, but any noise or movement wakes him up. It's almost like he has one eye open the entire time and he's not getting proper sleep. He also moves constantly and each time decides to chew a toy for a few minutes before he goes back to sleep. At most he can maybe get 30 minutes of sleep outside the crate
@happycamper843 That’s normal though. Dogs aren’t kids- their sleep cycles are different. They are naturally supposed to wake up- my puppy will open her eye or lift her head if us or the cat move around. But since she has been allowed to nap outside her crate always- that’s normal. She will just lay her head back down and snooze. Dogs are naturally watchful and do a light snooze as a protection instinct. If you let him be, and let him go through learning the normality of learning the routines of the home he will learn to settle himself.
@happycamper843 You could try a dog bed/open crate in a room with a cold floor.
Test the water & start training 'go to bed'.
Every time he leaves the room before naptime is up, you just say 'go to bed' and coax him calmly back, point at the bed & wait for him to lie down, then wait a few seconds & give a quiet vocal reward and every 1 in 3 times a treat (treating every time risks him learning to leave & go back in order to get the treat).
That way the quiet time is enforced, but you can start training in the concept of him taking himself to bed when tired.
Ours clicked around 6 months & started taking herself off to bed if a sofa nap got too noisey. By 8 months she was solidly napping wherever. Now at 2 years old she can fall asleep near a techno stage at a beer festival
@happycamper843 I’m not trying to be critical, but it does sound like you are micromanaging your dog’s sleep. It’s fine for them to wake up, chew something, go back to sleep, be woken by a noise, settle again.. it’s all normal. You won’t just put a dog down for a sleep and have them sleep for exactly 3 hours with no interruptions. And how will they get used to settling with noise if they never have to do it outside of the crate? My pup is almost 7 months and he sleeps in his crate at night, about 9 hours, otherwise he’s only in the crate if I have to go out for more than an hour (we are starting to experiment with leaving him up to an hour out of the crate when we leave the house). I work from home so that isn’t all that often. So far with his extra freedom alone he’s doing great.. when I work he either settles in his bed, one of his two crates, or under the couch. I would not fixate on puppies needing a “guaranteed 18-20 hours sleep to be healthy”.. these are guidelines and if your puppy has varying hours or quality of sleep (as is natural) they’re not going to be stunted or suffer in their development. It’s only a guideline, and I’ve found my puppy sleeps a lot less as he gets older.
@imagebeastmarkbeast My vet wants my puppy to sleep at least 16 hours until he's around 8 months. I am micromanaging, but these guidelines are there for a reason. I'm just following what my vet wants for my puppy as well
@imagebeastmarkbeast I absolutely adore my vet and have been with him for years. He's always done what's right for the animals in my home. A puppy is a baby, they need rest for growth
@happycamper843 I use a crate for my puppy and am not against them but 16-18 hours per day in a cage is not acceptable. You feel guilty because on some level you know that. You never explained why you took away his pen? And if he needs 16 hours per your vet, why 18 hours in the crate some days? It’s really not appropriate to use it for so long per day. It’s sounds like your pup would learn to settle fine outside of his crate if you weren’t so fixated on him occasionally waking, chewing a toy, or doing normal puppy activities alongside sleeping.
@imagebeastmarkbeast I did explain why I took it away in the comments. He was beginning to outgrow it and we don't have room for expansion. He's currently gated in my living room/entry area since I have two cats. Additionally, he does amazing when he gets enough sleep. He trains well, plays well, and is overall content. However, if he doesn't get enough sleep he starts to get bitey, barky, and will go for my clothes. High-quality treats and toys stop working. This is something I spoke about with my vet, a professional, who mentioned that I need to let my puppy sleep more and ensure he is getting the proper rest. Short naps were not enough for him. He's starting to grow out of this, but it's a slow process and not overnight.
