BAT 2.0 for Friendly Frustration?

[jordan12]

Hi all! I am just starting to learn about BAT 2.0 and it seems very promising. However, launching into the book it seems mostly framed around the natural reward / desired behavior being moving away from the trigger—ie, the dog is afraid. My puppy is in no way afraid of other dogs—she's so desperate to go play with them that she screams and chokes herself at the sight of other dogs, always, even at outrageous distance lol. Can anyone give me some info on how BAT should be adapted for dogs with basically the opposite motivation as most reactivity cases? It's very hard to grant my puppy the behavior she will find naturally rewarding in this situation (moving TOWARD the trigger, not away) while also staying under threshold, because decreased distance is also a trigger. Thank you!

 

[mistigale]

@jordan12 Our dog is an excited greeter and we’ve had tons of success using BAT. The idea is the same: reward the behaviour you want.

Find the distance where your dog doesn’t react and start there (for ours, it was 150 feet when we started!). Every time he engaged (looked at) the dog and disengaged (looked away, shifted his paw, moved his ear, turned his head slightly - it’s really important to start noticing the smallest behaviours that show your dog isn’t completely engaged with the other dog), we rewarded him.

We only allow our dog to greet other dogs if he does so without pulling, barking, etc. If any of those behaviours occur, we turn around and either move on or try again.

There are exercises you can do to decrease the distance of your dog’s threshold. We never did that and just found that consistent rewarding for appropriate behaviour was all we needed.

Engage, disengage

 

[bladeofdeth1024]

@mistigale My dog is exactly like that, i thought only I had this problem, how'd you fix it? Should I use a half choke chain along with the book?

 

[mistigale]

@bladeofdeth1024 Lots of hard, consistent work. He's still a work in progress.

Do not use a choke chain. They're not good tools. I suggest finding a trainer in your area that does not use aversive methods.

 

[bladeofdeth1024]

@mistigale Thanks for the reply, won't use choke chain, it's just that my dog tries to dominate me so much, she is scared of Stangers that is an issue, but at home she is like a gangster, if she wants a bag, shoe or anything, she wants it and when I tell her no, she goes for my hand to bite it, it's not a bite where my hand bleeds, but it's like don't tell me what to do bite, which is not healthy.

 

[mistigale]

@bladeofdeth1024 You need a trainer who specializes in dog behaviour.

 

[kjbbeliever]

@jordan12 My older puppy, 19 months, no longer has the need to meet all dogs. She grew out of it. The pattern I took with her I’m doing with him. It’s as follows..

My 7 month puppy losses his shit while on leash. His whole body wags and he pulls towards every dog. She also did this when she was young.

Off leash, forest walks, he doesn’t give a shit. He will go up to other dogs, have a sniff and move on. She was also like this. She has also learned that if a dog is on leash on our off leash walks they are off limits. He hasn’t learned that as well, but a ‘with me’ moves him along. I used a ball or treats to reenforce my older dog to move along. He just follows her lead.

Off leash, ball playing, he doesn’t even want any dogs to come near him, he’s focused on his ball and that’s all that matters. She was also like this. Hyper focused on the game, gave no shit about anyone else. They are border collies, so ball is life. I used that to my advantage.

I break up their walks with off leash, on leash, ball focused play at the park.

At 7 months I’m not too worried about it. I let him meet other dogs on lead, making sure his leash is always loose. I will let him have a sniff and the say, ‘ok, with me’ which usually works to get him to disengage and continue out walk.

My belief is the more he’s given the opportunity to fulfil his desire to meet every dog he sees the less likely he will see it as a NEED to meet every dog he sees.

 

[doks]

@jordan12 I personally did not find BAT 2.0 to be very effective for my frustrated/excited greeter. I ended up doing the protocol anyway, for general practice, but ultimately, PREMACK was more effective for us than BAT, or any other protocol rooted in a methodology that is for fear based reactivity. This was particularly apparent for us because our dog had no value for food or toys, so building value for something other than the dogs was extremely difficult.

 

[kdemayo]

@jordan12 I’m not familiar with BAT specifically , but I would say to continue treating it as you would traditional fear based reactivity with the caveat that you need to make moving away from her trigger super rewarding.. This could very quickly escalate to fear/frustration based since her emotions are running so high.

When you increase distance, you are going to have to match or outdo the excitement of the other dog and be more interesting and fun. Personally, I would start with something that’s not a dog - a toy or person that’s very rewarding but also keeps her under threshold. Introduce a cue for moving away and throw a party as you do so she starts to associate that cue with super duper awesome things. Use food, toy or play rewards with their value increasing as you up the difficulty. Lower rewards for moving away from less exciting things. Also, as you move away, go quick, run if you have to, in order to be more exciting and move her attention from the thing to you.

How old is your pup? Do you have a safe place she interact with other dogs or older, safe dogs she can learn from? Ideally, a puppy class with a force free trainer will teach her (and you) how to act when other dogs are around. They usually also have play sessions for the puppies. Depending on her age, a responsible dog daycare is also an option.

 

[g1keo]

@jordan12 Grisha goes over this in the book - getting distance decreases the frustration so it can also be reinforcement. BAT is great for frustrated greeters and I’ve seen a lot of success w this w client dogs. Making it really clear when they get permission to greet and when they don’t is super helpful in my experience too

 

[skilletboy]

@g1keo Do you know where? Sorry I’m late lol.

 

[skylar222]

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