About Cry It Out: Part 2 The Electric Boogaloo
- Thread starter seek2bboldwitness
- Start date
seek2bboldwitness
New member
@bleu999 ,>I guess my question is, how long is too long with crying?
This was asked last Lemonade Conference when Dr Pike presented and she said 2 minutes. Which to even myself seems insane. But I think there's some genuine confusion between a hyper attachment v. separation anxiety. Which is something she did touch on during her seminar, ultimately the treatment plans were highly similar usually with the hyper attached dogs not requiring as indepth of a bmod training or need or ssris to lessen anxiety so learning could take place.
SA unfortunately isn't my forte, so I would suggest looking further into sub threshold training and making a personal judgement call for your own dog based off what you know about them. I personally have a dog who's hyper attached and is a demand barker and I'll readily admit I will give in for my own sanity as this is a benign issue that only occurs when I am home.
This was asked last Lemonade Conference when Dr Pike presented and she said 2 minutes. Which to even myself seems insane. But I think there's some genuine confusion between a hyper attachment v. separation anxiety. Which is something she did touch on during her seminar, ultimately the treatment plans were highly similar usually with the hyper attached dogs not requiring as indepth of a bmod training or need or ssris to lessen anxiety so learning could take place.
SA unfortunately isn't my forte, so I would suggest looking further into sub threshold training and making a personal judgement call for your own dog based off what you know about them. I personally have a dog who's hyper attached and is a demand barker and I'll readily admit I will give in for my own sanity as this is a benign issue that only occurs when I am home.
@seek2bboldwitness Thank you
msheffield
New member
@seek2bboldwitness I hope that in addition to the body language resources, you’ll provide plenty of resources on kinds of barks and how to identify them.
I recently mentioned “cry it out” in a comment, referring to attention-seeking barking. I never explicitly said so, because I thought that’s what was being referred to any time “cry it out” is mentioned.
So when I first read your post, I was shocked, first because it seemed like terrible advice for attention-seeking barking — which it is — and I only realized you were referring to distress barking by reading more closely, and second because I realized people were letting their distressed puppies “cry it out.” But then I’d hoped to see literally any other kinds of barking mentioned, and whether the new rule applied to that, but it never came.
Please remember the nuances of barking. I see you’ve been more specific in this post, but again it only discusses body language.
Understanding types of barks is equally important for interpreting what your pup is trying to communicate, and I think everything but distress barks have been lost here.
I recently mentioned “cry it out” in a comment, referring to attention-seeking barking. I never explicitly said so, because I thought that’s what was being referred to any time “cry it out” is mentioned.
So when I first read your post, I was shocked, first because it seemed like terrible advice for attention-seeking barking — which it is — and I only realized you were referring to distress barking by reading more closely, and second because I realized people were letting their distressed puppies “cry it out.” But then I’d hoped to see literally any other kinds of barking mentioned, and whether the new rule applied to that, but it never came.
Please remember the nuances of barking. I see you’ve been more specific in this post, but again it only discusses body language.
Understanding types of barks is equally important for interpreting what your pup is trying to communicate, and I think everything but distress barks have been lost here.
seek2bboldwitness
New member
@msheffield No worries, I am presently working on that. There is a seminar on the types of barking however due to paywall I can not legally share the clips so I am working on assembling something similar on what distress barking and whining sounds like in comparison to a fear based bark, aggressive bark, demand or play barking.
@seek2bboldwitness 
Please & thank you… I’ve been going back to the drawing board multiple times with crate/separation training since I know my boy and I spend a lot of time together. Sometimes he’s perfectly chill in there and I think we’re making progress, other times I cannot leave for a second. He’s a vocal little dude naturally so hard to know where to draw the line.
Please & thank you… I’ve been going back to the drawing board multiple times with crate/separation training since I know my boy and I spend a lot of time together. Sometimes he’s perfectly chill in there and I think we’re making progress, other times I cannot leave for a second. He’s a vocal little dude naturally so hard to know where to draw the line.
msheffield
New member
@seek2bboldwitness Good to hear. Honestly the realization that at least some people were recommending “cry it out” for distress barking was… distressful, haha.
xemketqualode
New member
@msheffield Really appreciate this comment. A lot of nuance in barking and as a new puppy parent I don't always feel confident in knowing the difference. My puppy will bark if left alone but most of the time stops within 5 minutes or so as he settles with a toy or naps. I'm like 80% sure that for the most part it's just attention seeking, and I was getting very frustrated at all the comments against crying it out.
How the hell are we supposed to not encourage bad attention seeking behavior while not letting puppies cry it out?? Extremely conflicting and stress inducing to new puppy parents.
How the hell are we supposed to not encourage bad attention seeking behavior while not letting puppies cry it out?? Extremely conflicting and stress inducing to new puppy parents.
nickmanwithaplanb
New member
@seek2bboldwitness Now if only I could get the myriad parenting groups to take as firm of a stance against doing this with human babies....
@nickmanwithaplanb Strangely, with babies there actually is direct scientific evidence against it.
seek2bboldwitness
New member
@nickmanwithaplanb There's a joke about trainers that also relates to parenting... only thing 2 trainers can agree on is how the 3rd is doing it wrong 
seekingredemption
New member
@seek2bboldwitness Thank you for your hard work !
It did make me incredibly uncomfortable seeing people encouraging leaving a literal baby in distress in hopes they'd eventually get used to whatever they were training the puppy for.
It did make me incredibly uncomfortable seeing people encouraging leaving a literal baby in distress in hopes they'd eventually get used to whatever they were training the puppy for.
@seek2bboldwitness I 100% wished I had known this when I adopted my puppy 2 years ago. The cry it out method was traumatizing for her during an already sensitive time frame (she was going into adolescence and had just been rescued so lots of life changes) and I regret so badly trying to let her cry it out. To this day, she has crate trauma that we can’t work through even with meds and multiple professionals.
All that is to say, puppy owners, learn from our mistakes. Just because it’s worked in the past for other people doesn’t mean it’s the best method or that it’s harmless. Listen to your dog, know how to identify distress vs. FOMO, and don’t be afraid to ignore all those people who will give you the “let them cry it out” speech.
All that is to say, puppy owners, learn from our mistakes. Just because it’s worked in the past for other people doesn’t mean it’s the best method or that it’s harmless. Listen to your dog, know how to identify distress vs. FOMO, and don’t be afraid to ignore all those people who will give you the “let them cry it out” speech.