15 months old and still biting - do I have a monster on my hands?

[muted]

Our labradoodle girl has always been a chomping nightmare, the teething period was relentless, she goes through chews in minutes. She’s definitely improved in many ways, she knows a lot of commands, has good recall etc. She’s nowhere near as bitey as she was when she was younger but the behaviour hasn’t completely stopped, especially with me. She tends to bite when she’s overexcited, e.g. when we’re getting ready to go for a walk she bites me coat like there’s no tomorrow. Today she got bitey when I was on a work call to the point where I had to excuse myself and put her in her crate cause she was endlessly biting my arm. Her body language doesn’t suggest aggression and in general she’s just a very friendly, excitable and playful dog. It’s mostly cobbing (biting with her front teeth). She also doesn’t bite my partner as much - he’s the sterner one in the relationship (still within +r).

We’ve tried the usual stuff - redirecting to a toy, leaving the room (definitely harder during a work call), loud OUCH. She gets two walks a day (one includes off leash play time with her friends), frozen kongs, edible and non edible chews, puzzles. I am worried that she’s too old for this behaviour. Any tips?

 

[alisssabru]

@muted My dog was mouthy up until like 20 months. Not sure if that's normal but he just slowly stopped biting around that time

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@alisssabru I want to validate this. 15-20 months is still pretty baby for a larger breed.

 

[cats]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Yep my girl really only matured at around 18months. By 2 she was a very polite adult.

 

[birdinmypalm]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Second this as the owner of a land-shark… I mean newf/saint mix. They grow quicker but mature a lot slower. She’s just hitting teenage behaviours at 15 months.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@birdinmypalm Oh yeah I think a Newf/Saint mix would be a baby for like, two years at least. I love Newfs!

 

[alektra]

@muted Yeeeeep, I hear you. My dog is very good, but we ended up hiring a trainer online (ccpdt.org) to help us deal with some cat biting and chasing, as well as mouthing. Essentially we needed to up her playtime, but also enforce just a 30 second time out on her mat when she puts her teeth somewhere they shouldn’t be. We also worked on her ‘out’/drop cue, just to cement like exercising some control over her mouth. Her cat biting reduced 90% over a month, and it’s now a complete non-issue.

My dog never bites on my partner because he’s been very consistent with shutting the fun down completely when she would do it. I, on the other hand, am more permissive and kind of enjoy the jacket fights. So I got a bite sleeve! She understood it immediately, absolutely loves it, and this way I can keep doing something we both enjoy but she’s not jumping at me to play with my sleeves anymore. It’s easier for me to be consistent because there’s a time and place for biting play.

 

[namakula]

@alektra Even this doesnt seem to work for me. Im seriously running out of patience. I've hired trainers and it didnt help.

Ive tried timeouts of 10 sec, 30 sec, 1 min, 5 min. Ive tried reversed timeouts of various duration. Ive tried 2-3 minutes of play 5 times a day or 10 minutes of play 3 times a day. Ive tried 2x 15-20 min walk, 3x 25 min walk, and 4x 30 min walk. He gets enforced naps, tons of sleep, many puzzles and enrichment toys, slow feeders, big variety of treats and toys, trainkng sessions 4x a day, is great at self play, everything. He's very spoiled.

He has a 95% perfect "leave it" for food and garbage, but listens 0% for clothes and arms. I can balance high value treats on both his paws and he will wait as long as I ask him to. He knows a huge list of commands perfectly like circle, go left/right, run, slow, etc. He gets rewarded on command for gentle touch probably 50x a day. Yet, still doesnt help.

Every day 3-5 times he gets into velociraptor mode. Every command, treat, and toy is ignored. He latches on arms, ankles, and clothes. He jumps repeatedly and cannot be slowed down by any means. Any form of tying him to something with a leash, crating, timeouts, etc he seems to enjoy and only get him more riled up. Its not aggressive and he doesnt hurt me, but I cant even get myself a glass of water sometimes without him attacking forever.

 

[alektra]

@namakula Sounds like you’re at the point of hiring a trainer—ours was fully online, she’s never been in the room with our dog, and 4 lessons fixed my issue (and more!) for $80.

 

[namakula]

@alektra As explained, I hired multiple one on one trainers, each $1000-2000, and got nowhere.

I was told to use an e-caller and shock until he stops. They flatly refused to try any other method. Others tried putting out a knee, saying "no" sternly, using treats, teaching gentle touch commands, timeouts, whistling to distract from biting, toys, etc. Nothing helped. They gave up and said they cannot train him.

 

[alektra]

@namakula That sounds very challenging, and it must be frustrating to have a pro suggest the only solution is shocking the dog. I hope you find the direction and motivation you’re looking for, you and the dog deserve it.

That trainer I mentioned talked a lot about being over threshold—that point you talk about where they can’t follow cues or take treats—and how you just have to manage the dog until they’re able to calm back down. There must be something driving your dog to this behaviour where nothing can get through to them. If it’s truly nothing, it could be time to move to a vet behaviourist or looking at other medical approaches to help with training. It sounds like she’s really struggling with overexcitement.

 

[namakula]

@alektra All Ive got left is to ignore him and give him space when he gets "in a mood" and he's fine later. He's a perfect angel the rest of the day except for those times, but those times are really hard. Since he's only 4 months old, Im hoping he'll grow out of it. I just have a hard time accepting there's nothing I can really actively "do" or train that helps.

 

[alektra]

@namakula Wait.. 4 months old? That’s very much within the range of normal. Yeah, you just gotta ride it out. Make sure the puppy is getting two hours of rest after one active hour. If he goes wild and bitey he needs a nap. Their teeth are hurting all the time and their bodies are growing like crazy—biting is the only thing that helps.

 

[davidalbracht]

@namakula My pup went through a pretty horrific landshark phase like this. She's an Aussie/Golden mix and a rescue, so I had to deal with a healthy mix of boundless working breed energy, herding instincts, and mouthing. Enforcing naps really helped since the mouthing was the worst when she was tired. I also started soaking old shirts and rags in dog safe bone broth and freezing them for her to chew on to soothe her gums during the teething stage. I'd do something similar by boiling carrots in broth then freezing them, and she still gets one daily even though she's well passed the teething stage

I totally get the "mood" you're referring to. My partner and I call it gremlin mode. When the crazy eyes come out, it's nap time lol

 

[tomm57]

@namakula What exactly do you mean when you say you hired a trainer and it didn’t help?

You hired a personal one on one trainer? What type of training? What did they recommend, how long did you do it?

 

[tomm57]

I’m not offended that I was downvoted, but I am asking specific questions because in my life I hear from a lot of people who say they hired trainers but it’s like a group session (which I highly recommended normal puppy behaviors!) or someone who said to shock the puppy, or just a random trainer who doesn’t have the credentials to handle more difficult cases.

I am not a trainer, but I am somewhat well versed in the dog world, and I hate to see someone give up on their dog because they hired some bad trainers through no fault of their own.

 

[namakula]

@tomm57 Yes, multiple personal one on one trainers, all with excellent reviews, each charging $1000-2000.

The first ghosted me after first contact.

The second said to use an e-caller and shock him every time until he stops. I asked if they had any other less forecful training methods, and they said "No. We're not a good fit for you, look for someone else".

The third tried to stop the biting by putting out her knee, distracting him by whistling, using a stern voice, and gently pushing the puppy off of her.. repeatedly for 2 hours. Puppy thought it was a game, enjoyed it, and kept going harder. She tried this for 3 sessions, then said she cannot train him while he's being like this and we parted ways.

 

[alektra]

@namakula Holy cow, all three of these sound dreadful. No wonder they didn’t help!

 

[tomm57]

@alektra Yes honestly!!! This is insanity.

Not a single trainer talked about giving her a job to do while you got your coat on? Or building up patience by learning to wait for something they really want?

My puppy will be 15 months tomorrow. When he is bored/wants attention he will nibble on my pants, pull on my pockets etc. it’s a very specific behavior that means “look at me” “play with me”. That’s the only time he puts his teeth on anything on my person (besides his gentle ear nibbles when he’s giving kisses). And no, I’m not saying he’s a perfect dog, he’s kind of difficult, if I’m being honest. He’s a pain in the ass.

But he LOVES his flirt pole, and teaching him he has to down and wait to be released to chase it has really helped him understand that he has to down and wait to get what he wants. Chomping and craziness will only prolong his wait.

Removing stimuli, even if it seems like negative stimuli will often end the behavior. Dogs repeat behaviors that get them what they want.

My dog knows this, that’s why he keeps pulling my pants down

 

[tkm]

@namakula Yeah these trainers sound awful, but to me the weirdest thing is that none of them said that let's try again in like half a year. At the age you said your puppy is in the other comment, this sounds like totally normal behaviour to me.

Human babies cry when their teeth are coming. Dog babies bite when their teeth are coming. It's just coping with the pain. Try some frozen things to chew, to ease the pain and wait until the puppy has their adult teeth.

When the biting starts it's either chew toy time or nap time, depending on how much they've slept that day