Would you trust your reactive dog around a baby?

[freed0mandtruth]

To preface, I am not a dog person because I have no desire to be responsible for an animal. They’re nice and all, but not my thing. Also worth a mention, I was attacked by my family dog when I was a teenager and am not comfortable around any dog that I’m not confident I could take in a fight (so pretty much anything over 20lbs). The dogs I have now were a package deal with my partner. The agreement has always been that he will be the primary caretaker because of these reasons.

We have two shibas, I’ll call them K and W. W is aggressive towards K. Not as often as she was a year ago, but that’s mostly because we’ve gotten better at noticing the signs. W will start with small whines and K usually ducks his head and cowers, this signals the start which is where we usually are able to distract W and stop it. She has attacked K viciously many times. My fiancé was bit once when he went to grab her to try to stop it. My fiancé did take W to 8 weeks of training after this, but not much came of it (honestly because he didn’t put in much effort outside of the training class).

K is not without his own problems. He is stubborn to a fault. If he is on the couch where you sit or lying in front of a door you need to open and you try to move him, he will snarl and nip at you. He will do the same thing if you pet him for longer than he wants, even though he is constantly trying to get people to pet him.

My partner really wants kids, but I’m on the fence about if I do or not. I’ve realized a big part of why I don’t is the dogs. I just can’t imagine feeling comfortable having a child around these dogs. Even with training, can a reactive dog ever be truly trusted around a kid? With W who’s vicious attacks often seem to stem from resource guarding, what if a toddler picks up food off the ground? Or grabs one of her toys? With K, what if the child tries to open a door he’s in front of or pets him longer than he wants? Is bringing a baby into a household with animals like this even responsible?

 

[mozarella]

@freed0mandtruth Overall, I think it's important to understand what your dog is reactive to before deciding whether a child is safe with a reactive dog... for example, a dog reactive to other dogs wouldn't necessarily have any problem with kids.

With what you've shared about your dogs - absolutely no way.

The only solution would be to manage entire separation of dogs and the child (ie, different parts of the house/rooms with baby gates. Their behavior sounds unpredictable and unforgiving - not the type of dog to put a child in the mix with.

 

[freed0mandtruth]

@mozarella My partner thinks she is just dog reactive because her aggression is almost always towards our other dog. However, he said that she did not act aggressive towards other dogs in training and said she actually seemed to hide from them.

I feel like she is resource guarding and I can see how a toddler could very easily become a threat to resources, which makes me wary.

I can’t quite figure out what the resource is, if it even is a singular thing. Ive seen her start fights over food, toys, attention, and sometimes over seemingly nothing.

 

[mozarella]

@freed0mandtruth The concern here is, what if dog A snaps at dog B when baby is nearby? Or baby tries to pull at dog B when they are on the couch and doesn't want to move?

Even if the dogs only lash out at one another (which it sounds like it can sometimes be targeted at you as well), the baby can accidentally end up in the middle.

This doesn't sound like resource guarding, but it could be (the resource is probably you in that case). There are plenty of dogs that can get along fine with others at a dog park, but not at all in their same home.

 

[light4]

@freed0mandtruth "Even with training, can a reactive dog ever be truly trusted around a kid?" The answer is, of course, no and you are right to trust your instincts. I feel horrible for anyone that has to live with aggressive dogs that they do not want in the first place. Nobody should be living in a house with dogs that snarl, nip or show other signs of aggression, unless they are fully committed to living with a problem dog and upending their lives to accommodate it.

 

[ari4ever7]

@freed0mandtruth Big fat nope - maybe muzzled and leashed but under literal perfect conditions for really small increments of time

Edit: this is to answer the initial question about my own dog but to also answer your last question - no i don't think it's responsible, it's a huge liability and neither the potential baby nor your dogs were asked to live together, if two is a crowd, imagine a smol child crawling around, annoying the already annoyed dogs

 

[edm1]

@freed0mandtruth A lot of this behavior sounds like it's breed related too. You (mainly partner) can work on the resource guarding with training /games. I've been told by vets, and daycare workers that shibas often have very fast reactions that can be out of nowhere, but I'm learning I can tell when he is on edge and likely to act out. Also shibas have a very rough playstyle so it may be worth asking in some shiba specific groups if the dogs are fighting or playing.

 

[freed0mandtruth]

@edm1 I can tell the difference between their fighting and playing. The fighting is straight up scary. K has ended up with bite punctures from bites when it’s aggressive.

 

[edm1]

@freed0mandtruth Ok, I just wanted to check because I've read several times that shiba play is often mistaken for fighting.

 

[tanakh1]

@freed0mandtruth If kids are something you want, or really either way, your partner should do serious training and learn to manage the dogs so you can truly see what is possible.

I know you don’t want the responsibility but it would probably make a difference for you to participate. Most of the training will be in practice when you are home and not at a class.

Resource guarding can be managed and sometimes mainly cured. For example my dog used to food/treat guard and now does not at all- we would practice feeding her higher value food while she was eating. If a kid is around who I think may push her or bother her while she is eating (even though she doesn’t even growl anymore) I feed her in her crate to keep her and everyone safe.

Managing their resources that they guard makes a huge difference. Now is the time without kids to try. I think it is very commendable that you are thinking about this in advance and taking it seriously. A lot of people don’t and just get rid of their dogs, or allow something preventable to happen that results in the dogs needing a new home or losing their lives.

 

[robingood]

@freed0mandtruth Honestly, dogs are dogs, and even my current dogs who are not typically reactive I wouldn't trust around children unsupervised. Stuff can happen in a split second and the child could end up getting hurt regardless.

It does sound like there are issues with these dogs that would make it unsafe to have a toddler around nearby even supervised. Your partner needs to be on board with training or nothing will stick. Shibas are pretty notorious for being dog aggressive and often have resource guarding issues. I had a dog reactive Shiba before my current two who had similar tendencies. I would recommend getting a trainer to help you with these issues, probably a behaviorist who deals with aggression before you consider having children.