Why can’t people leave me and my reactive puppy alone?

rich4u2

New member
I just came back from training at the dog park. I have a dog-reactive 7 m/o mini schnauzer, so today was the first time I attempted to sit down with him outside a dog park and work on his reactivity.

Well, we lasted all of five minutes. Not only from my dog’s non-stop barking — but what was way more annoying was the amount of people coming up to me and asking what I was doing/commenting on my dog, including:

• “Oh, he’s got a lot to say!”
• “He wants to come in, doesn’t he? Let him in!”
• “Introducing him to play in there one day, right?”

Meanwhile my dog is literally screaming his obnoxious terrier scream and squirming in my arms.

There’s a thousand other people to socialize with that are IN the dog park, and the most interesting thing to you is the person 50 ft away. So of course their dogs follow them, which makes my dog even worse.

If you see someone trying to manage their dog, please leave them be. That is all.
 
@rich4u2 I apologize in advance if my advice in unsolicited but wanted to throw some possibly helpful things as a reactive dog owner:

You might need more space to begin with if your dog is barking during your desensitization exercise I have a reactive dog (frustrated greeter who also very easy to arouse/over stimulate) he is almost 2 and his reactivity is now very minimal.

I’m not sure if this is beginning of your reactivity journey but if the dog is already barking within that distance of the park he is already over threshold and not going to be responsive to training. On top of that with all the people trying to interact or console you that can cause something called trigger stacking, which can make him even quicker to jump over threshold from too much stimulation.

I would start way further away from the dog park. Like possibly the parking lot or across the street at first. You may need a lot more distance to avoid flooding your dog. Flooding is something that happens when we put dogs in environments that are too stimulating and they start to become unresponsive (which can often look like they are chill to the untrained eye) because they are so stressed out. Dogs often in this situation will not take food and food can often become aversive over time because it’s been pushed in their face while they under a lot duress.

For people, when I work my dog he is always under threshold, I politely but firmly tell people: We are working on his excitement, I would appreciate if you just ignore us but thank you for checking in on us.

You also should be mindful too that your dog isn’t being a nuisance. If the dog’s barking is that loud and frequent people are probably talking to you as a round about way to acknowledge your dog is being loud. Training shouldn’t be overly affecting other people that didn’t consent to being part of your desensitization exercise.
 
@annaboleyn This is great advice, thank you! I was definitely too close for our first time. I definitely have a habit of trying to get him to eat when he’s overwhelmed, and I’m trying to cut that down so I don’t poison it for him.

Love that you and your dog have had success in just 2 years! Mine used to be reactive to people, but he’s also overcome that with training.
 
@rich4u2 I feel you, mine was around your age when I noticed how prevalent his reactivity was and that it wasn’t just layover of puppy behavior.

It can be really frustrating and overwhelming at first, especially when you know the logistics of what you (in using you in the general sense not as a specific person) need to do to help the dog already. You want to do all the different exercises, management and exposure training because you know it’s effective. But often times we overwhelm our dogs because they are just not ready yet for that level of exposure/training.

It does get better though, especially if you consistent, empathetic and mindful with your dog. Like I said mine is almost 2 and it’s likely an entirely new dog. He can walk on a loose leash around people in dogs even in busy environments, he can tolerate watching dogs play and engage with their owners, he even does sports with me at facilities where we see other dogs also working.

Just take it easy and don’t pressure on yourself or your dog, you are both doing your best and eventually will be getting to where you need to at your own pace. I wish you luck on journey!!!!
 
@annaboleyn This is actually also really helpful for me. My reactive boy Fate is almost 2 and we’ve had so much progress but I’d love to know what your plan and training kind of looked like. I know that can be a lot though, so no worries! Also very happy and inspiring to hear ❤️
 
@jesus_is_our_lord I can kind of explain it. I first really categorized what kind of reactivity my dog had specifically and what were his triggers. His reactivity was over arousal and excitement based, he is not a fearful dog nor is under socialized (meaning he has nervousness, fear around those things) be it people, objects or other dogs. I also noticed that he had a huge lack of focus in new environments and struggled to give me attention.

So knowing those things I minimized interaction with new/exciting people, super new environments and all dogs excluding the ones we lived with as much as possible.

Because I understood that focus was a major issue for his reactivity I really emphasized creating games and exercises that defaulted to him engaging with me. All forms of play came through me to build engagement, I added more structure to walks and play. I started introducing lots of functional and trick training to all types of play just to work on keeping his attention. I did and still do games with him throughout the day at home, then outside my backyard and eventually moving those to places like the park, training school, slow commercial areas (parking lot, sidewalk of a business where no one is really entering) then to busy areas with people/dogs around.

I did a similar thing with food. I incorporated moderate and high value food into every day things and began to create classical responses to cues so my dog would always be inclined to take a treat on a specific cue (treat and three). I worked food into engagement games and once those games were concrete at home moved them to slightly more stimulating areas until I was able to treat him in busy spaces.

My dog is super high drive and high energy. He needs a fairly extensive amount of exercise but because his behavior stems from easy arousal it’s important to incorporate mindful, structured exercise that allows him to intentionally go from low arousal, to high arousal and back down. This helps lengthen his ability to regulate his intensity and help him understand that we can be “on” during play but should never be manic. I love using parts of agility and some other training like obedience with extremely arousing activities. This helps my dog not only focus but find that sweet spot of drive instead of just being anxious and hyperactive. I then built in down time where we reward lots of settling throughout play, his agility classes also works like this.

I also do a lot of mental work with him. Lots of nose work games like finding scents, hide and seek and using snuffle mats, introducing new challenges to training (for example I’ve been working on a settle and release cue at my front door, I’m working distance and distractions so I will have him on a long line while I’m all the way at my neighbors house, going into the car or crossing the street. I ask for behaviors, and then release and even sometimes have him wait after a release. This is all mentally very tiring). Things like trick training and task work can be super helpful in this regard.

Lastly I make sure he is getting adequate enrichment. I rent sniff spots on occasion (especially during his most reactive months) so he has opportunities to free roam giant properties and just do whatever he wants. I do predation substitution games and exercises with him to help meet his prey drive needs, I make sure he has opportunities to forage, chew, lick, and for a dog who is a herding breed use his sight to orient on things, allow him to chase, and do activities that replicate parts of herding.
 
@annaboleyn This was all so helpful! Although some of Fates reactivity (specifically to strangers) is fear based, his reactivity toward other dogs is definitely due to over arousal and is excitement based. Thank you so so much for taking the time to be this detailed as I’ve already took some notes and plan on implementing then w our boy! ❤️
 
@rich4u2 Sometimes another “reward” is a toy. It gives them a nice break or refresher. I have a very reactive dog who goes crazy over basically anything that moves, but she isn’t good motivated as a “distraction.” She’ll do tricks for food, but she won’t do things like recall or stuff for food. However a toy does get her attention. It is much for fun than barking at cars and other dogs. It gives them a nice “break” and puts their focus 100% on you/the toy, and allows them to kind of get their frustration/stress out. It all depends on the dog and what works best. Good luck!
 
@rich4u2 I would also like to add to the above comment that it would be better to leave your dog on the ground. Having them in your arms lifts them above the other dogs which makes them feel they are on top of the world and fight anyone, because mommy will protect me. Leave it on the ground and the reactivity is usually a lot better.
 
@lostchildinthemidst Depends on the dog! My dog's reactivity is 100x better when I carry him versus when he's on the ground.

In my arms = safe, knows exactly what to expect, no chance of meeting the other dog, can just relax.

On the ground = uncertain what to expect, might get to meet other dog, on edge.
 
@rich4u2 I live in a high rise apartment building. We’ll often just sit in the lobby for sensitization training, especially if outside is too hectic. Most people are just getting home, so they won’t be as inclined to stop what they’re doing and pet the cute dog. And then of course, as part of the training, other owners will pass by with their dogs
 
@annaboleyn Sorry to go off ops topic slightly, but I was just wondering whether you could go in to a bit more detail on what you did with your dog? Sounds exactly like mine and we're struggling so badly trying to calm him down and keep him focused when there are any other dogs or people around he wants to say hello to.
 
@%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA Definitely, I went the route of getting professional help and also gathered up a lot of resources l had available to me: controlled unleash methodology (you can find it in book form written by Leslie Mcdevitt) Susan Garett’s podcast on YouTube called “Dog That” is an amazing resource as well, click to calm by Emma parsons (book), Don’t shoot the dog by Karen Pryor (book), fenzi dog sport academy it’s a online resource with affordable classes targeted to sports dogs, but they also have classes specifically for reactive, anxious dogs taught by a behaviorist. Lastly aggressivedog.com is a website utilizing amazing information by pet behaviorist Micheal Shikashio.

I did a couple personal sessions with an amazing trainer that works on reactivity in dogs utilizing control unleashed methods. From there I went to my local zoom room, I was already attending there but had to stop for a while due to how severe my dogs reactivity to other dogs was getting.

After having a better foundation and management I slowly introduced him to private classes at Zoom room paired with group advance obedience classes with lowest amount of dogs. From there we used the advance class to work on getting him adjusted and calm around other dogs. Once he was able to be comfortable with the aid of food we moved to CGC prep and had him doing the same with minimal food to eventually no food rewards. (He still gets food rewards, but in order to pass his CGC needed to be able to do so without food).

I also put him into their agility class (he loves agility and we were already doing it at home after a couple private lessons). This helped him really get accustomed to moving around with other dogs present. Often we have markers that the dogs rotate to while one dog is in the agility area. This allows my dog to acclimate to dogs doing courses, some dogs playing with their owner, walking around etc….

This was awesome because everyone in class is on the same page. Dogs don’t greet each other, everyone keeps about 6-8 ft of distance, we pay attention to if a dog is getting anxious/stressed and accommodate.

I also utilized a lot of play for my dog when not in structured classes. So when we are at the park and dogs are approaching I have some good redirection games with the use of toys like a flirt pole or frisbee. I also do a lot of searching and patterns with food on walks where I can’t just pull out a flirt pole to redirect my dog.
 
@annaboleyn Aye, my little guy doesn’t take treats when we need to sit him down on a chair to brush him or clean his eyes. He doesn’t like being up there, girlfriend wondered why he wouldn’t take treats. I just told her when I do this, I have a comforting voice and so it quickly as I can. Then put him on the floor and give him a treat whilst calling him a good boy. He is too stressed in the moment to want to eat a treat, but the second he is off the chair he is happy to eat. First time she saw it she thought he is so chill on chairs, he actually doesn’t enjoy it, took putting food near his face to figure it out. But he is a Bichon, so he must have these moments often, just make them short and sweet with a treat at the end
 
@disciple315 Warning: unsolicited advice (sorry I just have to!!)

Putting your pup on the table when he's over threshold can result in learned helplessness and/or escalate the fear.

Recommend starting with a lower platform, somewhere he feels comfortable and will take treats, and work up to higher platforms gradually.
 
@slaney4 Thank you, I think he’ll be okay. He has been on a groomers table plenty of times without stressing out. He just acts differently when at home, he used to be on lower surfaces. But then he will try jump off because he doesn’t enjoy having his eyes cleaned. Safer for all of us if I have him on a chair and my hands keeping him there whilst he gets his cleaning.
 
@disciple315 I appreciate your concern for everyone’s safety!

In many cases, dogs act differently at home because they either have failed to generalize the idea (platforms are safe but only at the groomers) or because they feel more comfortable expressing their fear.

Taking a slower approach to cleaning your pups eyes may benefit you both in the long run! Using cooperative care techniques like setting up a treat bowl or asking him to hold a chin rest, so he can opt in/out of the situation, can go a long way toward making everyone safe and comfortable.

You know your dog best, and I’m probably making assumptions based on my own experiences. I just hope you find an approach that helps your pup feel better during grooming sessions!
 
@annaboleyn
Training shouldn’t be overly affecting other people that didn’t consent to being part of your desensitization exercise.

The only exception to this is anyone who brings their off-leash dog to play fetch at a leash-very-much-required park. Then I'm going to plant my butt on a nearby bench with my hyper-social dog at my feet, and if they feel uncomfortable with my dog staring at them (with occasional check-ins with me for a treat) that's very much their problem.

...not that I just came home from a walk where this exact scenario took place or anything.

Agree with this in all other cases!
 
@rich4u2 If he's barking you aren't far enough away for that kind of training to be effective.

When you're training a reactive dog it shouldn't look like you're training a reactive dog. Get enough space so he acts normal, then work on getting closer.
 
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