chinyereukoha
New member
@imagebeastmarkbeast Oh I didn't realize he had a course, I will look into that, thank you.
Which of these 2 online courses is right for me?
- Thread starter chinyereukoha
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imagebeastmarkbeast
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@chinyereukoha Yep no problem. To find the course, the course is his playlist section of his page. Then you will see a course called something like basic obedience class 1. Certain videos in course, he will only talk and go over the why behind training. This as good as you going to get for a free course.
@chinyereukoha That is Ivan's motto. He teaches how to fish, he does not feed you. Most people just to know 'how do I fix this thing with my dog. It sounds like you have a deeper agenda that Ivan can fulfill. He teaches concepts not 'do this with all dogs'. I'd go with Ivan's bundle. Ellis is fantastic, but it's a more cookie cutter approach than Ivan's. You do also need to watch Ivan's 'out' video. Also check out any online content by trainers who are certified by him. Lead off Leash K9 puts a lot of content on youtube, she has some with very young dogs too. Matt Welsh also has a lot of good posts- but he seems to be selling Ivan's course 
.
.@chinyereukoha I’m not super familiar with Michael Ellis, but I would say his course just because he’s not Balabanov. I took one Balabanov course (chase and catch) just to see what the hype was about and to be honest it’s a lot of money for something that isn’t all that revolutionary or useful.
Also echoing what another commenter said, Balabanov thinks very highly of himself and I don’t enjoy paying money just to hear him talk about how fantastic he is
Also echoing what another commenter said, Balabanov thinks very highly of himself and I don’t enjoy paying money just to hear him talk about how fantastic he is
@hopeinnyc It was chase and catch 2.0. I could see his ideas being revolutionary 10-15 years ago when dog training was much more control heavy and coercion heavy, but now? In 2022? Not so much. IMO if your goal is to better understand how to use prey drive and toy play to increase motivation there are lots of trainers that are doing it far better than Ivan. I was hoping for something great when I bought it because it was so hyped, but it was really disappointing to spend over $100 on something that other trainers I’ve worked with are doing better.
Ultimately though it’s all a matter of opinion and preference. If Ivan’s courses/methods have helped you that’s great! It’s just not something I personally found value in so I can’t really recommend it.
Ultimately though it’s all a matter of opinion and preference. If Ivan’s courses/methods have helped you that’s great! It’s just not something I personally found value in so I can’t really recommend it.
@danny86 I can name all the things that are different with Ivans chase&catch 2.0. There are many, you probably just didn't understand.
Do you really think 2x world champion in IGP, 5x or something usa champion and many times on the podium, who used play as the primary reinforcer for every dog he competed with dosen't have something better than what most people do? Just yesterday he he got 90+ points in tracking and protection in AWMA National championship.
You're really lost my friend! Ivans methods and courses produced and are producing the best trainers there are in the world. Especially his certification course. It's not one or 10 persons who benefited from his methods it's thousands. Hundred of thousands of dogs who finally have an owner who knows how, when, what and why to play with their dog. Thousands of dogs who were not given the blue juice....
Now back to the course.
I've had others courses, Shieldk9 and some free ones and I can guarantee they don't even come close to Ivans level.
What's new?
Do you really think 2x world champion in IGP, 5x or something usa champion and many times on the podium, who used play as the primary reinforcer for every dog he competed with dosen't have something better than what most people do? Just yesterday he he got 90+ points in tracking and protection in AWMA National championship.
You're really lost my friend! Ivans methods and courses produced and are producing the best trainers there are in the world. Especially his certification course. It's not one or 10 persons who benefited from his methods it's thousands. Hundred of thousands of dogs who finally have an owner who knows how, when, what and why to play with their dog. Thousands of dogs who were not given the blue juice....
Now back to the course.
I've had others courses, Shieldk9 and some free ones and I can guarantee they don't even come close to Ivans level.
What's new?
- How he uses play. It's not behaviour = play or ball.
- How he gets the ball from the dog at first. Most trainers pop the leash and pull the dog back to them. Ivan meets the dog in the least forcefull there is. The dog learns fast. Never seen this method anywhere.
- Most dogs I've seen who didn't want to play were labeled as driverless or no ball drive, no play drive. Ivan is the only one I've seen bringing up a dog trough play, teaching the dog how to play and beeing sincere. It dosen't take long for the dog to replicate and want to join the play, despite not showing any interest for the toy at first . Again I've never seen trainers allow for this moment to happen. You get to see exactly how Ivan dose it.
- When to use the play. For dogs who don't like other people either agressive or shy and fearfull, he teaches you exactly how to play with them and their owner.
- He teaches you how important play is for mamals with the latest and most up to date studies.
clintpauljohnson
New member
@hopeinnyc Upvoted because I appreciate the effort to list the specific things you've learned.
I disagree that any of that is new or unique to Ivan since I've learned similar from a couple local dog trainers, neither of which is "certified" by Ivan. I have never once seen popping or pulling the leash to get a dog to bring the ball back, no doubt some trainers do but not most.
It's not the training methods that people don't like, it's the frequently talking down other trainers and methods as if Ivan is the only competent trainer in the world.
There are literally dozens of courses, seminars, videos, etc on how to get dogs to play that aren't into it, and yes, they each have their own spin on how best to do it, but it's just not the case that Ivan is the "only one" doing this.
I disagree that any of that is new or unique to Ivan since I've learned similar from a couple local dog trainers, neither of which is "certified" by Ivan. I have never once seen popping or pulling the leash to get a dog to bring the ball back, no doubt some trainers do but not most.
It's not the training methods that people don't like, it's the frequently talking down other trainers and methods as if Ivan is the only competent trainer in the world.
There are literally dozens of courses, seminars, videos, etc on how to get dogs to play that aren't into it, and yes, they each have their own spin on how best to do it, but it's just not the case that Ivan is the "only one" doing this.
@clintpauljohnson I see where you're coming from.
But it's still the only course with this content( I know for sure people have done it this way, but not on social media. Not explaining everything from start to finish, not making it widely accessible for everyone in every country )
If there is a course cheaper that teaches you exactly how to take a dog from 0 to that level of play, than please infrom me of it.
Note: it's not that Ivan is different in the way he teaches the play, but he takes dogs who don't want to play and makes them play at almost the same level as the high drive dogs. Which again I've never seen someone do, because they are too focused on genetic ball drive and play drive.
Edit : This is where I wanted to really reach :
Ivan uses play to also reinforce pet dogs, rehab dogs and more. This is what I belive, and correct me if I am wrong, is completly new.
If you haven't taken Ivans course:
Can you please list the exact way Ivan gets the ball back from the dog, how he meets the dog, since other trainers have done it this way? This in my opinion, on it's own is worth buying his course.
The only trainers he talked down to was trainers who deserved it. Trainers who lie for money and use their concepts despite not working.
Ivan specified in a lot of his podcasts that he hates most social media trainers. He is verry well respected in the dog community and has lots of friends who share common concepts and ideas.
But it's still the only course with this content( I know for sure people have done it this way, but not on social media. Not explaining everything from start to finish, not making it widely accessible for everyone in every country )
If there is a course cheaper that teaches you exactly how to take a dog from 0 to that level of play, than please infrom me of it.
Note: it's not that Ivan is different in the way he teaches the play, but he takes dogs who don't want to play and makes them play at almost the same level as the high drive dogs. Which again I've never seen someone do, because they are too focused on genetic ball drive and play drive.
Edit : This is where I wanted to really reach :
Ivan uses play to also reinforce pet dogs, rehab dogs and more. This is what I belive, and correct me if I am wrong, is completly new.
If you haven't taken Ivans course:
Can you please list the exact way Ivan gets the ball back from the dog, how he meets the dog, since other trainers have done it this way? This in my opinion, on it's own is worth buying his course.
The only trainers he talked down to was trainers who deserved it. Trainers who lie for money and use their concepts despite not working.
Ivan specified in a lot of his podcasts that he hates most social media trainers. He is verry well respected in the dog community and has lots of friends who share common concepts and ideas.
clintpauljohnson
New member
@hopeinnyc I have not taken his course, so I'm sure I can't tell you "the exact way" he does it, but I can tell you the ways I've learned:
My best guess is Ivan would disagree with 4, probably uses 1 and 2 and might use 3. I'd love to know if I'm wrong or there is something else totally different.
- meeting the dog, ie you don't approach the dog head on but you go meet him on his line of travel. Maybe with a long line to prevent the dog from running off, but not to force the dog to you.
- if there is a spot the dog want to take the ball to (bed, cot, furniture, shade, corner, etc.) using that to your advantage
- attracting the dog with your voice, movement (running backward), bending over, clapping, etc
- attracting the dog with a second ball or food
- or some combination of the above
My best guess is Ivan would disagree with 4, probably uses 1 and 2 and might use 3. I'd love to know if I'm wrong or there is something else totally different.
@clintpauljohnson It's pretty close. But there so much more to it which I'm not going to share out of respect for Ivan. So where have you learned it from, what trainer?
Ivan was the first to teach and use the meeting method, so if you've learned it from someone else, that someone learned it from Ivan or from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from Ivan or from someone who helped Ivan in the making of this method. Larry Krohn and Michael Eliss both said that Ivan has something new to offer in his play courses and not only.
My original point is that you can't find anything like this online, avalable for everyone from every country.
Show me a course that's close to Ivans course price that :
If you focus on methods and adding another tool to your box you're not going far... You need to focus on the big picture on the whys...
Once you understand the science behind it, which Ivan explains it perfectly methods are only a plus and you're also going to create or find your own methods that are agreeing with the science.
Ivan was the first to teach and use the meeting method, so if you've learned it from someone else, that someone learned it from Ivan or from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from Ivan or from someone who helped Ivan in the making of this method. Larry Krohn and Michael Eliss both said that Ivan has something new to offer in his play courses and not only.
My original point is that you can't find anything like this online, avalable for everyone from every country.
Show me a course that's close to Ivans course price that :
- Teaches you how to actually make a dog who dosen't want to play to play and like it, not because of the ball or the toy, because the dog likes the game and the interaction.
- Teach when and how to use the game for agressive and fearfull dogs towards people.
- Teaches you how important play is from a pshycological pov.
- How to use play for reinforcing behaviours...
- The method you seem to have a grasp on, but it's much more than that.
- 1 hours and 40 minutes of Q&A after the 2h of theory and methods.
If you focus on methods and adding another tool to your box you're not going far... You need to focus on the big picture on the whys...
Once you understand the science behind it, which Ivan explains it perfectly methods are only a plus and you're also going to create or find your own methods that are agreeing with the science.
imagebeastmarkbeast
New member
@imagebeastmarkbeast If you’re looking for building motivation through play a few that come to mind are Meagan Karnes (The Collared Scholar), Nino Drowaert (STSK9), and Shade Whitesel are the first few that come to mind. Susan Garret is also good, especially if you’re interested in agility.
@hopeinnyc OP wasn’t asking which trainer has the most IGP championships, OP was asking which trainers which have the best classes for motivational training and training through play. Being successful in the trial ring and being good at teaching foundation concepts to people who are newer to dog training are wildly different skills.
wifeandmom
New member
@chinyereukoha Go Ellis. Buy this eve (50%off on 3+ dvd/streams)! I have most of his stuff. He is amazing at explaining concepts that really allow you to figure stuff out yourself.
chinyereukoha
New member
@wifeandmom Im gonna wait for the christmas sale they have on the courses and get the one I listed, but thanks for the tip
wifeandmom
New member
@chinyereukoha Nice. Curious how the 3 day workshop course is. It certainly has a lot of recorded hours for your dollar. I think their Christmas sale is 15% off.
chinyereukoha
New member
@wifeandmom Gonna go look through the current stream sale to see if there is anything I could get to supplement the course I'm gonna get.