Which of these 2 online courses is right for me?

[chinyereukoha]

Background Info: I'm fairly new to dog training, although I've owned a couple dogs (hound/lab mix, pharoah hound, GSD) in the past which I did very limited amounts of training with. I have spent the past month educating myself on the principles of operant conditioning and classical conditioning. I've watched/listened to hours upon hours of content from various well known and respected trainers (I've literally watched every single Michael Ellis video on youtube). I've read multiple books from Pryor (Don't shoot the Dog), Donaldson (Culture Clash), Dunbar (Before & After Getting Your Puppy).

We're getting a dutch shepherd puppy in February as a "family pet", although I do intend to do some scent detection work with him. I want to do his training myself, although we will be open to hiring a professional if we begin to struggle with reactivity problems, etc.

This being said, I'm interested in investing in some online "Puppy" training courses to bolster my knowledge & understanding of methods, principles and techniques. I really want to take a FOCUS, MOTIVATION & PLAY REWARD approach to the training, which is why I've decided to choose between Ivan Balabanov and Michael Ellis' courses. I believe their methodology and approach will give me a solid foundation on which to build on.

The Two Programs

Ivan Balabanov "Perfect Puppy Bundle" $457, 13-14 hours including Q&A

• Chase & Catch 2.0
• Treat Chasing 2.0
• Possession Games
• Guide to Raising Great Puppies
• Introduction to Leash Walking for Puppies

Michael Ellis "July 2019 Puppy Development Workshop" $400, 20+ Hours

The modules in this course are much more expansive so here is a link to the course outline if you scroll down.

Note: A lot of these segments I'm quite familiar with through watching his YT videos. Such as, the Terminology, Classical Conditioning, Operant Conditioning, Our Communication System.

I wish I could afford to buy both right now, but I also plan on buying the $250 Michael Ellis December 2019 3 Day Workshop.

So if you were me, which would you purchase and why?

 

[joyinchrist4234]

@chinyereukoha I’d go with Ellis. Not only is he clear and concise, he doesn’t spend a great deal of time talking about how much knowledge he has and how important this knowledge is to people.

I’m not saying Balananov isn’t a great trainer. I’m saying there’s a lot of fluff about himself. He’s really good at marketing.

 

[chinyereukoha]

@joyinchrist4234 I can see that, having listened to his podcast. I did really enjoy his episode WITH Michael Ellis though haha. I do REALLY enjoy listening to M.E., there is something about the way he explains things, and his delivery that is very captivating and easy to comprehend. Thank you for your input.

 

[hopeinnyc]

@joyinchrist4234 Yeah Ivan is good at marketing, but he really ia revolutionary and his old ideas are the core concept of what most trainers do today.

I'd say Ivan and Ellis are both on a another level.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@chinyereukoha Michael Ellis - raising your puppy course.

I hate to break it to you, but a dutch shepherd is not a family pet...unless it's a unicorn. These dogs need a job to do. Find some sport clubs in your area...especially bitework.

Otherwise you'll be telling your dog no no no, which will make for a very unfulfilled dog.

 

[chinyereukoha]

@imagebeastmarkbeast I love how every time I make a post mentioning the breed, someone tries to tell me “its not a family breed”. Im not some schmuck that buys a dog on a whim. Ive done my research and am fully aware of what the breed is. Thank you for your concern though.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@chinyereukoha I'm glad you've done research, most people don't.

Mal's (and likely soon dutchies) are undergoing fad breeding, like many breeds have. So your appreciation of people's concern shows your dedication to the breed.

 

[chinyereukoha]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Yah, Im very OCD when it comes to my interests hobbies. I have to learn everything I possibly can before beginning the endeavor. Hence why Im spending countless hours researching training. I also found a very solid breeder who has paired these two parents specifically for their more “family pet” temperament. She told me flat out it had been any of her other pairings she would have turned me away due to my intent. She is also a trainer and her husband is a police K9.

 

[theyearofthelady]

@chinyereukoha Not disagreeing with anyone’s perspective on Balabanov’s personality quirks or spending money to listen to him tell you how great he is, but I did buy his “Training the Out” and I was surprised and impressed by his approach. He’s definitely not Ellis in the educator category, but it made me curious about his other videos and the puppy bundle seems like the best buy. I’ve got most of M.E.’s dvd’s/streams from Leerburg and recommend him to everyone. Thanks for the other recommendations folks have offered. I’ll check them out as well.

 

[mypathmyquest]

@chinyereukoha Micheal ellis. Because there seems to be more segments and a bit cheaper. more segments means it's more in-depth. Also, if you're familiar with it a bit, then it's easier to understand. plus longer timage of it. more benefits in that one if you ask me. idk about either, but for my focus, the videos would be easier for me to remember.

 

[chinyereukoha]

@mypathmyquest Good points, thank you for your input

 

[mypathmyquest]

@chinyereukoha no prob

 

[fl269fl269]

@chinyereukoha Honestly, I think one of the best programs out there right now to cover philosophy is Tobias Oleyniks subscription service. There is a wealth of theory in it. He runs a 3-5 day free trial period. It is mostly sport oriented, but some of the best trainers I know are also sport trainers.

Dave Kroyer also has a free 7 day trial. You'd probably get to see what you want from his in that period.

 

[chinyereukoha]

@fl269fl269 Thanks! I'll check them out.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@chinyereukoha To save you some money. You can watch Nate schoemer videos. He have a playlist of all training you need. I would recommend start out with his basic obedience class.

 

[chinyereukoha]

@imagebeastmarkbeast I've watched some of Nate's stuff, and he is obviously a quality trainer. However, I'm not interested in learning how to train particular behaviors. I'm more interested in the underlying forces at play when training. I'm also not interested in a "non-aversive" philosophy, it is my opinion that it is important to give non-reward markers, and later on, corrective "Nope" markers as this gives the dog more information to work with.

I don't want a trainer to give me a fish. I want a trainer to teach me how to fish.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@chinyereukoha Oh ok. I don't think you understood what I was saying. Nate schoemer have a course call obedience class. He go over the science in why dog behave the way they do and why the marker is important. He talk about the original dog trainer who study dogs as well. I am not talking about a random video but a course list in chapters. Hope this helps.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

After watching his videos. I watch many trainers video and went to courses locally . Each trainer I came across always talk about four steps some form of way. remember this not a physic class on how train dogs. However, physic basic rules still exist to this day with Newton laws

However here are four steps:

1.) Command -> motivate -> mark or reward -> reward

Some way these steps will definitely apply to train any dogs

 

[chinyereukoha]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Thanks....I have a firm grasp of the basics. I'm more interested in how to increase focus & motivation. I will watch some of his stuff though, as I said, he is obviously a solid trainer.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@chinyereukoha Ok, yeah in my opinion he explained it. However, it's probably what you already know. Today I increase my focus/motivation training. My 15 weeks GSD did really well. My two cent, we have to stay consistent and be patient.. she ignores other animals and focus on me. However I do used a 40 ft leash. If she not focused on me. I tape/pop the leash twice and then She run towards me. After that I give her a treat and say good job... She can do the heel command outside in grass without looking at other distractions. I am not a expert but she definitely improving.