psaltichrysostom
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I saw this in a post and I’ve never heard of it. Would someone please explain what it means?
What is R- and P+?
- Thread starter psaltichrysostom
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kfalla1984
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@psaltichrysostom Two of the four "quadrants of training." I'm really not good at explaining this concept but I'll try - those who know better than me, feel free to correct me.
In this context positive and negative don't mean good vs bad, they mean adding something to the situation vs taking something away. Reinforcement is used to reward a behavior & incentivize the dog to make the same choice again in the future. Punishment is the opposite - used to de-incentivize a behavior, discouraging a dog from making that choice again.
+R = Positive Reinforcement = giving your dog something that makes them feel good, ie praise, affection, treats, as a reward for doing as asked/as expected
-R = Negative Reinforcement = utilizing pressure, which is then removed when the dog does as asked. for example, tugging upwards on their leash/collar to enforce a sit - once the dog sits, you stop tugging/the pressure goes away.
+P = Positive Punishment = introducing an unpleasant stimulus as a consequence to a poor choice. stimming a dog on an ecollar for inappropriate barking, agitating or popping a prong collar in response to pulling, or even clapping and shouting to scold a dog.
-P = Negative Punishment = taking away something pleasant as a consequence for not doing as asked. ie not letting them have a treat due to them not following a command, or closing a door/not letting them out because they tried to burst through it without a release.
This article explains it a little better. https://www.wshs-dg.org/resource-ce...e-trainer/414-science-and-art-of-dog-training
In this context positive and negative don't mean good vs bad, they mean adding something to the situation vs taking something away. Reinforcement is used to reward a behavior & incentivize the dog to make the same choice again in the future. Punishment is the opposite - used to de-incentivize a behavior, discouraging a dog from making that choice again.
+R = Positive Reinforcement = giving your dog something that makes them feel good, ie praise, affection, treats, as a reward for doing as asked/as expected
-R = Negative Reinforcement = utilizing pressure, which is then removed when the dog does as asked. for example, tugging upwards on their leash/collar to enforce a sit - once the dog sits, you stop tugging/the pressure goes away.
+P = Positive Punishment = introducing an unpleasant stimulus as a consequence to a poor choice. stimming a dog on an ecollar for inappropriate barking, agitating or popping a prong collar in response to pulling, or even clapping and shouting to scold a dog.
-P = Negative Punishment = taking away something pleasant as a consequence for not doing as asked. ie not letting them have a treat due to them not following a command, or closing a door/not letting them out because they tried to burst through it without a release.
This article explains it a little better. https://www.wshs-dg.org/resource-ce...e-trainer/414-science-and-art-of-dog-training
fl269fl269
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@kfalla1984 Actually, I think you did a pretty good job.
kfalla1984
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@fl269fl269 Hey great, thanks 
debarktango
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@psaltichrysostom Negative reinforcement and positive punishment
psaltichrysostom
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@psaltichrysostom R- is taking away an aversive.
Human ex: when you get in the car and you forget to put your seat belt on, the car dies an annoying beep and it doesn't stop until you put your seat belt on. The relief of the annoying beep stopping is negative reinforcement.
Dog ex: when you give a command then apply pressure with a prong collar by pulling up until they follow the command and once they follow the command the pressure is released and the relief is reinforcing.
P+ is adding an aversive.
Human ex: when you do something bad as a kid and you get extra chores because of it.
Dog ex: when the dog does something you don't like and you use a corrective collar.
Reinforcement is adding or taking something away that will INCREASE a behavior.
Punishment is something that will DECREASE a behavior.
Human ex: when you get in the car and you forget to put your seat belt on, the car dies an annoying beep and it doesn't stop until you put your seat belt on. The relief of the annoying beep stopping is negative reinforcement.
Dog ex: when you give a command then apply pressure with a prong collar by pulling up until they follow the command and once they follow the command the pressure is released and the relief is reinforcing.
P+ is adding an aversive.
Human ex: when you do something bad as a kid and you get extra chores because of it.
Dog ex: when the dog does something you don't like and you use a corrective collar.
Reinforcement is adding or taking something away that will INCREASE a behavior.
Punishment is something that will DECREASE a behavior.
@hopeinnyc Why do you feel this way?
It's extremely effective at visualizing this principle, for most people.
Something(in this case annoying sound) usually pressure, is removed to make a behavior more repeatable and a faster comply.
Otherwise often people mix it up with negative punishment, which is removing something, food, toy, etc, to make a behavior less repeatable.
It's extremely effective at visualizing this principle, for most people.
Something(in this case annoying sound) usually pressure, is removed to make a behavior more repeatable and a faster comply.
Otherwise often people mix it up with negative punishment, which is removing something, food, toy, etc, to make a behavior less repeatable.
@msyue92 You'd have to learn from Ivan Balabanov if you truly want to know why it's such a bad example.
Here's a post, just so yk I'm not lying. Hope you know who Ivan is!
Edit :
Eileenanddogs.com has a great blog on it.
WE have control of the onset and the escape and/or avoidance of the aversive stimulus (seat belt ding). Dogs or any animal, do not have that luxury when trained with R- ie. someone else decides when and how much and how hard the aversive stimulus will be and also decides what the animal has to do to have it removed and the animal has to figure that out through trial and error.
Here's a post, just so yk I'm not lying. Hope you know who Ivan is!
Edit :
Eileenanddogs.com has a great blog on it.
WE have control of the onset and the escape and/or avoidance of the aversive stimulus (seat belt ding). Dogs or any animal, do not have that luxury when trained with R- ie. someone else decides when and how much and how hard the aversive stimulus will be and also decides what the animal has to do to have it removed and the animal has to figure that out through trial and error.