Vet has recommended neutering to reduce aggression

[sfender]

I have a 5 year old dog (he is a mixed breed and I had adopted him when he was a stray). He was reactive to other dogs right from the start, when I consulted with an animal behaviourist, she had suggested that neutering could go either ways - it could help reduce his aggression or could make it worse So we had decided to not neuter him. Today the vet told me it was very normal to neuter a 5 year old dog and that it would definitely help with aggression and eliminate chances for testicular cancer etc.
Not sure what to do at this point. Any advice from your experience is appreciated.
More info about my dog - 5 y.o, M, reactive to other dogs especially males, mixed breed, where I come from the strays usually life for 13-14 years.

 

[christiantonyb]

@sfender Our dog was neutered at age 2. Still reactive as fuck but I am curious, why wouldn’t you want to neuter him? At this stage of life, he’s fully grown and while neutering won’t necessarily change his reactive or aggressive behavior (if it’s even aggression, reactivity doesn’t always mean aggressive) it does eliminate the risk of testicular cancer. Are you just thinking you’ll deal with that if it happens? I’m genuinely curious and would love to know thoughts here as I’ve always neutered my males after they turn 2 or 3. Curious why others keep a dog intact if they don’t intend to breed. Thanks for any insights!

 

[mallappam10]

@christiantonyb Not OP but I have a male dog I’ll be keeping intact his entire life unless medically necessary for a few reasons. Number 1 is that general anaesthetic has a small risk of death. It’s not likely but it happens. I hope if all goes well he never has to go under GA ever. Number 2 is that I personally know at least 10 different dogs who have become aggressive to intact males the moment they’re neutered. Right now my dog isn’t aggressive to any dogs and I want to keep it that way. Number 3 is that these are big risks to me for the only benefit to eliminate chance of testicular cancer when I know his lines and there’s no traceable cancer in his genetics at all. Of course removing them would eliminate any risk at all but I’m not out here removing his legs so he doesn’t get leg cancer etc. To me this is comparable to a woman getting a mastectomy even though she has no breast cancer in her lineage, just doing it because it eliminates the possibility. It’s extreme (to me!)

Hope this helps!

 

[nancygara]

@mallappam10 Less than 0.1% of dogs die during generalized anesthesia, however more than 27% of intact dogs will develop testicular cancer. I'm curious to understand what you mean by "big risks". Around 2 million dogs are euthanized from shelters each year. It is a responsible owners job to have their animals fixed. Not doing so results in a *much higher* risk of cancer, more unnecessary euthanizations, and even fines.

It's also a procedure that is offered low cost in most qualifying areas because NOT fixing your animals has became such a problem. So there is no excuse.

 

[jesustakemyhand]

@nancygara The fact that you call it "Fixing" already shows your bias, your opinion is irrelevant in this conversation. Your cancer stats are also completely bogus. Dogs being euthanized in shelters has absolutely no correlation with neutering your pets, I have no idea how you managed the mental gymnastics of connecting those together.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@jesustakemyhand Dogs being euthanized in shelters DO have a strong correlation to neutering your pets. There are so many strays out there because intact pets keep going out and impregnating other dogs, thus resulting to overpopulation.

 

[monk58]

@christiantonyb Sometimes it is health reasons (initially my reason) it was not the right time at all when working on stabilising a serious condition. Some dogs also have health reasons to never neuter

Some times for confidence for a fearful dog

Sometimes it is because the dog has no behaviour issues and has never shown a need to neuter. That leaves aside health benefits but people weigh those up differently and it is less clear cut for male dogs when you look at the percentage risks

Another reason no one mentions and I do know three people who have intact dogs for this reason are neutering certain breeds of male dogs is really really damaging to their coat. It goes coarse and weird and they get strange fluffy ears and increased matting

You can easily spot an neutered or unneutered male simply from their coat texture

I know a cocker spaniel owner, a red setter owner (not Irish red setter.. red setter) and a Bedlington terrier owner who is an ex groomer who are very clear their dog is not neutered because of impact on coat

Only the Bedlington has any reactivty and he is a terrier lol and is getting better with training

People do have other reasons they might just not share them.

 

[christiantonyb]

@monk58 Oh wow! The coat thing happens in some females after a spay. They call it puppy coat. Interesting. Thank you for the info!

 

[monk58]

@christiantonyb Yup I have a dog that isn't imapcted by coat changes and neutering but I have certainly seen it in some breeds

Does it happen to all dogs in that breed I don't know

 

[mallappam10]

@monk58 Sorry to randomly comment, show cocker spaniels especially sable ones get the ugliest coat after neutering lol!

Just wondering what you mean by red setter not Irish red setter? Wondering if it’s different where you are because in the U.K. we have Irish setter (this the red one), Irish red & white setter, English setter, and Gordon setter and that’s it!

 

[monk58]

@mallappam10 Hi there

I don't pretend to be any expert but the dog I am meeting I think the guy called it an irish setter... it is the one on the right in this link

https://irishsetterdogs.com/red-setter-vs-irish-setter-dog-breed-comparison/

I believe the breed got crufts last year

It is a very different dog than what I would think of as the normal red setter (sorry may have confused what I was wittering on in the last posts sorry...)

Its got much shorter legs and is more like a setter that looks the size of a springer spaniel but is lighter and ranger like the setter

The guy got it as a rehomed gun dog that didn't make the grade: intact/ pedigree and rarer.. and free!

Anyway I had never seen one before... lovely well natured dog if a bit zooming around sniffing. Never bother another dog though just wants to sniff and search. Sometimes returns with a pheasant in its mouth.. lol

 

[mallappam10]

@monk58 I actually attended Crufts this year and last year and definitely only setters are: Irish red setter, Irish red and white setter, English setter and Gordon setter.

What country is this person based in as maybe it’s a very new breed in a different country to U.K.?

 

[monk58]

@mallappam10 Oh I am in UK

I must have muddled it up as names!

The dog I meet is lovely and is the short legged version... he is sweet and his owner has definitely decided not to neuter him.. which he could as no longer working dog because he is worried about harming his beautiful silky coat

I think the Crufts thing was last year.. I do remember the man mentioning when we met on the evening pee walk (dogs not us lol) it and it wasn't recent and crufts 2023 was recent

I don't have a TV so don't really end up watching it on a laptop... but I do think it was this month?

But now I am really doubting my memory.. it was only a brief passing conversation

 

[mallappam10]

@monk58 Ahh right, sounds like he probably got it from an experimental breeder, someone trying to create a new breed or something?

Either way sounds cute but is not a KC breed haha

 

[monk58]

@mallappam10 I am not sure

He got it from a gamekeeper in the north of Scotland. It is a just failed its training as a gun dog

Rehomed to him because he knew a friend of a friend type network and had just lost his spaniel unexpectedly .. poor man was very upset about that. The dog was brough down by a gamekeeprwho was moving estates

It looks very swish and pedigree lol! Beautifully put together dog and such a nice nature

I will meet him no doubt in the next few days on the local stroll and will ask him again what the dog is.. I am curious now too

 

[mallappam10]

@monk58 Hey, so, being a working gundog doesn’t mean you’re pedigree! My friend is a gamekeeper and his best dogs are sprocker spaniels - springer mixed with cocker. They’re not pedigree at all but look very “swish” to the eye and work very well. I also know some working gundog labradoodles which we all know are certainly not pedigree!

Pedigree is just about having pure lineage and being registered to prove it - you get really good looking ones and really terrible looking ones too! Same with mongrels and mutts - some are ugly but some look just as good as any purebred dog!

You can check on kennel clubs website btw you don’t have to believe me - they have every KC breed listed there

 

[monk58]

@mallappam10 Oh I believe you I just got the impression this was a register dog with papers

But I am probably wrong! I must say I have only known pedigree dogs on the estate where my parents are and kind of assumed most game keepers had that. They seem to keep working lines going by breeding them. Always pure labs and spaniels. I don't see many retreivers up their way.The crosses are accidents

It is not my area really though.

I will ask the man

 

[jkohlmeier]

@christiantonyb I have a 10 year old intact male German Shepherd. In my case the benefits outweighed the risks. While neutering eliminates the risk of testicular cancer and reduces the risk of non-cancer prostate diseases, those cancers are quickly and easily cured/treated if they become a problem-but the incidence is so low. However, neutering increases the risk for some orthopedic conditions like hip dysplasia. Since I have a breed known for greater than average ortho issues, I decided to accept the risk of an relatively easily treated and uncommon cancer if it increased the chance of him being mobile and comfortable longer into his old age.

This is a great article the lays out both the pros and cons of sterilization. The article has extensive references if you want to read the studies; it's quite a rabbit hole.

There are even instances of neutered dogs getting HRT after neutering led to health problems.

 

[roberthill1964]

@jkohlmeier The problem is the ideal time to sterilize is different for every breed. No vet will have gone through all the literature (and we don't have studies on every breed) so it has shifted to breed sizes, especially when you get into mixes and rescues. Females also face higher risks than males if left intact (mammary cancer risk significantly increases after their first heat cycle, pyometra, unwanted litters and whelping issues, etc.)

I also think the type of reactivity and how bad it is, plays a huge role in if sterilization will help. There is also evidence that sterilized dogs can have reduced anxiety and less separation anxiety, in particular. Anecdotally, I have seen it help with reactivity if the owners are already working with a behavourist or trainer and it wasn't severe reactivity. We recently had a case that ended in a behavioural euthanasia because they chose to wait until he was fully healed to work with him and he severely bit someone. The owners were non-compliant with recommendations since he was a puppy so we weren't surprised, but it still isn't the outcome you want.

With issues after sterilizing, they are rare and sometimes can be related to breeding/genetics. I find that article really inpteresting, but it is definitely not common. I would say look for a good breeder that does the suggested health testing and know the needs of the breed, especially during growth. So many people over exercise their pups or do exercises that are bad for their growing joints. I used to even before I learned more. I have been lucky with the dogs I have raised, but my rescue dogs joints have faired worse and they were young adults when I got them. Both were sterilized after 1 year of age and atr medium sized so 6 months should have been fine. Similar breed to a 3rd dog of ours who was sterilized at 6 months. No idea on their parents health, if they got proper nutrition and exercise as pups, etc. It isn't as simple as to sterilize or not. So many factors go into the physical and mental health of a being.

 

[jkohlmeier]

@roberthill1964

It isn't as simple as to sterilize or not. So many factors go into the physical and mental health of a being.

You summed it up perfectly. I think sterilization is the better choice for a majority of dogs but not every single one.