Stop coddling your dog! You're the problem, not them!!

[halbhh]

@gellmannamnesia My friend, I would have said no at the shower. There are legitimate REASONS we have the type of equipment we do. You are the skilled professional.
I always wonder what these people are like as parents and how their human kids turn out, much less function as adults.

 

[david_c]

@gellmannamnesia It’s honestly wild to see the difference in an “anxious” dog once their anxious owner leaves. And they pretty much never believe you when you tell them the dog was completely chill throughout the groom.

My favourite clients are the ones who understand that once they walk out, the dog will follow me back with zero issues. I can’t stand it when they insist on staying and coddling the dog constantly, petting the dog and rewarding the anxious behaviour. I don’t mind a quick pat and a “you’ll be fine!” before they leave but some people make the process so much more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@david_c Many people are also unaware of the dog being in a state of learned helplessness vs "totally fine". Heck, most people are unaware of dog body language in general. Also you cannot reward anxiety, it's an emotion not a behavior. You can certainly lessen anxiety through positive things like pats if the dog finds comfort in them.

Source - every professional animal behaviorist

 

[david_c]

@imagebeastmarkbeast I used to work with an animal behaviourist who always taught me to ignore anxious behaviour in dogs and lead by example with calm energy rather than petting the dog and saying “good boy/girl”. I’ve always seen better and faster results in dogs when following this advice rather than rewarding the dog when they’re anxious.

Also you can absolutely reward an emotion. You see this all the time in overly excited dogs who continue to do it because the behaviour is being rewarded and encouraged rather than stopped.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@david_c Continue to do what? If you're talking about jumping up on people, that's a behavior that many people reward by giving the dog what they want when they jump up (attention). Overly excited dogs can be trained to chew on a toy or perform another acceptable behavior as an outlet, or they get the zoomies.

There is a reason why vet clinics have tons of various treats at the ready. Simply leading by example is not enough for many dogs. I work in a research lab where we test veterinary drugs on dogs. Believe me, calm energy and even pets are not enough and for the dogs we can give food treats, they often refuse because while they aren't trying to escape, they are still anxious. They appear relaxed on the outside because of their stillness, but it's a kind of robotic stillness. When they go back in their cages it takes them a minute to "snap out of it". It's very sad. They live a life where almost all choices are taken away from them.

Dogs that resist handling or procedures are simply restrained harder because the job needs to be done whether it's nail trims, dosing, etc. Most people I work with are not experts, just employees hired to do the basics. It's amazing working in a scientific research facility with dogs that there is no requirement to learn the science surrounding dog behavior. Most even think the tail wagging that goes on when you're putting a tube down a dog's throat means the dog is somehow happy this is going on. Anxiety tail wags are certainly a thing and the only way they seem to express their emotions when they aren't allowed to go anywhere.

Cooperative care is something zoos train their animals for yet we do not, though 2 of us are trying to change that at least for some things like nail trims for example. All dog owners should teach cooperative care imo. It's very much worth it rather than aiming for that learned helplessness state because of convenience. Choice builds confidence and confidence leads to decreased stress. Canine Enrichment for the real world is a great book that talks about agency as a type of enrichment. Every living creature thrives when they feel in control of their environment and bodies, and we have the power to give them that feeling through cooperative care training.

 

[mccra76]

@david_c It is a very established concept among behaviorists, especially R+, that only behavior can be reinforced, not emotional states. It's a pervasive myth, like dominance theory.

 

[upanddown]

@gellmannamnesia Not a groomer mostly here to ooooh and aaaah over the magic yall do and I get the popcorn out for the drama.

I’m an owner of two “wash and wear” dogs that were probably pandemic puppies and not socialized. My Heeler gets drugged for a lot of husbandry while we work on training. I did his nails and had to give him a bath and didn’t realize I would be full on laying down taking a bath with him. He was a little TOO relaxed lol. I’m picturing telling the groomer they need to get into the bathtub with him and giving them some candles and a glass of wine to set the mood

My other dog does great at the groomer and it’s money well spent for sure!

 

[mccra76]

@gellmannamnesia I genuinely notice a difference in the behavior of my clients whose parents I have a closer personal connection with and those who are more distant. The clients I'm close with hype their dog up for grooming and talk about it positively at home ("He loooooves when I ask if he wants to go see psheartbreak!" kind of thing) which I think makes the dog respond better to coming to the salon. Some of my clients will even send me cute videos of their dogs grabbing their leash and collar when asked if they're going to my salon. I love that ish, the dogs love that ish, it's great. The attitude of the owner has a big impact on the dog's impression of not just grooming, but the entire world!

Aside, I take my own senior dog to physio once a week as rehab for a knee surgery and just for his general wellness. The tech there told me that one owner is so overprotective of her dog that she won't let him do more than a few minutes of exercise and refuses to let him use the water treadmill... Then why are they even going? Why let your anxiety and reluctance filter through your pet and worsen their healthcare outcomes? It makes me so mad.

 

[hattersgonnahat]

@mccra76 Yeah my little dude gets so excited to be groomed. I mostly do home grooming which he is less thrilled about but every couple of months he goes to his groomer. She loves him and he loves her enough that shes actually boarded him for me before and he just hangs out at her salon playing with her dog and getting loved on by a bunch of people. He becomes a tornado of energy when he realizes that's where hes going

 

[kerzz]

@gellmannamnesia Lol, I wouldn’t have even humored the owner after a certain point. As soon as someone comes with the “oh, your table is too tall and scary!” I would have told them I’m ending the service and they can accommodate their dog themselves.

 

[kychristian1963]

@gellmannamnesia Dog trainer here. I came from the title all angry / defensive because half of my clients are anxious people, and a whole lot of them do "coddling" behaviours without any ill effects on their dogs. Feeding treats, going slowly, baby talking... none of these things are inherently harmful and it was a hill I was ready to die on.

But yeah, nothing about this situation makes sense. That person should not have been anywhere near your workspace, nor dictating how you work in the moment. And you got wet because of it? WHAT. None of that is OK.

When I'm not sure if the dog is stressed at the groomers, I ask the groomer to send footage because adding a person (even a calm trainer, never mind an anxious person the dog cares about) will change the baseline behaviour of the dog and mess up the results. The best assessment is footage because it's non-invasive. And it's never the groomers fault if the dog is crazy stressed - that's why I have a whole job. And if the dog isn't stressed out, it's proof for the owner that they need to step back.

So I'm not all angry anymore, this was stupid and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. Give her a business card for a local dog trainer, and never see her again. What a mess!

 

[isika]

@gellmannamnesia I would have laughed in her face. And also she never would have even been in the van in the first place. You wait outside.

 

[godsholywords]

@gellmannamnesia I own a golden and I groom him myself. Heck no if I had a professional bath and table would I be in the shower bathing or running around trimming him he’s soooo much better on my grooming table. My back thanks me too.

Hopefully some professionals can offer advice but I agree if they are hiring you to groom them they need to let you work like a professional.

 

[stretchmyhand]

@gellmannamnesia I'm so grateful I work at a boarding facility where the grooming salon is inaccessible to the clients. Certain clients absolutely exacerbate their dogs' behavior. I've had dogs who were perfectly calm and fine with me but their parents were basket cases who made their pets anxious. No, ma'am, the dog doesn't have separation anxiety, you do.

 

[roxolan]

@gellmannamnesia I have similar issues in vet med! Good times!

 

[rjskidmore]

@gellmannamnesia I used a mobile groomer in the past. She rang the doorbell and took the dog from me and I never even saw the inside of the van. Sounds like she had a good policy.

 

[joshisajosh]

@gellmannamnesia She wants a groomer to groom her dog but do it in the way she would do it if she were to do it at home (showering and then chasing around dog on the floor) why even bother with a groomer? The whole point of a groomer is that they have the tools (bath and table) and knowledge (knowing it’s safer to have a dog in the tub or on table)…. Crazy I would’ve said no when she told me to use her shower

 

[deanedridge]

@gellmannamnesia In my experience, 99% of dog nerves come from the owners. Once the owner leaves they are usually ok. For the other 1%, we find a solution that works for the dog and the owner.

 

[surrenderingtogod]

@gellmannamnesia I agree with you that people need to stop coddling their dogs, but also groomers need to stop coddling batshit crazy clients and set some boundaries LOL.

 

[dentful1]

@gellmannamnesia I have a client that insists her Aussie is terrified of everything. Every time she tells me this laundry list of things he's terrified of / doesn't like. Every time I tell her that I understand her concerns but her dog has never shown any issues with any of these things for me.

Well recently she stopped coming because she found out I moved my salon from my main floor to my basement and "He's terrified of basements." (He's not)

Months later she comes crawling back. She says she's been grooming him herself but she just can't do a good job like I do (no kidding).

I don't know what this lady had been doing to this poor dog for the last few months but now he tries to bite for brushing and so much more tense than he used to be.

So she just created problems where there were none before because she just had to project her anxiety on to her dog.