Please, I beg of you, RESEARCH your dog trainer before just going to the cheapest place or the ‘highest reviewed’ place

M

mim4you

New member
I can’t express how many times I’ve been talking to people about dog training and tell them if they’re looking to go to a trainer, they need to find a reputable, R+ trainer that is certified and known. And I can’t express how many times people came back saying ‘i took my dog to this random trainer and now he’s even worse than he was before!!’ People. This is a living being. You wouldn’t take your child to a random no name babysitter that you haven’t researched, so don’t take your dog to a random trainer, it’s not fair to them and it’s definitely not going to achieve the results you’re hoping for.

Content warning: dog abuse

https://fb.watch/eSewZ1KVGu

https://unfilteredwithkiran.com/she...nUj8PCERQN0D6E3rvX4Ab9QoVgUONR-J-wRE9WE&amp=1

If you don’t want to watch, a young woman named Kayci took her dog to a supposedly reputable cane corso trainer and as somebody recorded, the trainer repeatedly forcefully throws the dog to the ground. Another clip shows a dog tethered by rope that two people are pulling opposite ways while somebody is hitting the dog over and over. This is a known facility in her area and nobody decided to say something until Kayci, countless dogs have received that treatment.

The facility has deleted all social media for the time being and is under investigation.

UPDATE: Names and more footage have been released. Victoria Bruner and Tina Frey are the two trainers we witness in these clips, Tina Frey is a Vance corso BREEDER who ASSISTS THEIR LOCAL PD. She has an unfair advantage to being safe from the law, we have to push to make sure justice for these dogs is served!! All their personal pages aside from Tina’s tiktok have been deleted, her TT is @cypressarrowk9

Footage that has been released that I will not link includes their kennels filled with dog blood. Pools of it. We CANNOT allow these people to go free of charges.
 
@mim4you If someone threw my dog to the ground, I think I would stab them, like instantly. I had a vet yank my 56 pound German shepherd mix up mid air not even by table by grabbing the scruff of her neck. She was like 6 at this point, not a puppy. It was the first time I had heard my dog cry, and she peed on him mid aid. I snatched her back so fast and walked out.
 
Right. I was so mad that a vet of all people did that. Like no way would I trust them behind closed doors. I can’t even remember like why he felt the need to pick her up. Always gotta advocate for your pups! And kids
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast I'm really sorry that happened to your and your pup, that's awful :(. Unfortunately, most vets have very limited, if not non-existent, behavioural training or understanding. I hate to say it, but especially older, male vets - they received their education in an era that was dominated (pun intended) by alpha nonsense, and they can be exceptionally rough with dogs. This isn't okay. I hope you had the strength to say something to him and/or report your experience to someone at the practise, but if you didn't that's completely understandable - I'd be a mess in that situation.
 
@mim4you a lot of places that train “scary” breeds like dobes, cane corsos, rottweilers, etc. seem to treat the dogs they “train” like that. It’s all because of a certain trainer who I won’t be naming really reinforcing that dominance bullshit many years ago. people still think you have to “show your dog who’s boss” for some reason, and by that they mean you have to use force in every training scenario. I can’t stand it.
 
@imagebeastmarkbeast Can confirm. I have a 2.5 year old Malanois/ Dutch/ German Shepard mix who I sent away for a month when she was about 8 months old. She didn’t really have any behavior issues other than resource guarding and possessiveness over her frisbee. We tried different methods to see if we could break her of those habits, but finally decided that it was best to seek a professional. After three weeks I went to visit her for the day and attend a training session to show her progress. The trainer who was handling my dog handed me what I could only describe as a long link of chain that he had me keep in my pocket. During my training session with my dog I was instructed to throw this link of chain at her anytime she hesitated with a command that I gave her. I pulled it out once after the trainer yelled at me to pay attention. I was told that if I didn’t use the chain to reinforce, she’d go back to her old ways and all of the training would have been for nothing. I saw the way she flinched when it came out of my pocket though, and I knew I couldn’t do that to my dog. There’s no reason for it. The session went fine without me having to use it, and I probably should’ve just took my dog home that day. I left her there for another week, and I cringe when I start thinking about what may have happened behind closed doors during that week. I picked her up the following week and they gave me the chain to bring home with me, but I threw it away at a gas station on the way home. I knew I’d never use that method with my dog. A scared dog is not an obedient dog. And a dog that is only obedient because it’s scared is dangerous.
 
@mim4you Cypress Arrow K9 Academy in Lena, Louisiana. The videos are on YouTube too. It's sickening the way they were choking that big dog, whipping it and the poor thing is whimpering and looks so fearful. It seems like 101 how to make an aggressive big dog the way they were treating it
 
@mim4you I would never ever leave my dog at a facility for training and supposedly pick up my dog in a month and have a fully trained dog. An friend of a friend did that and her dog sustained head injuries and shortly died after coming home. Animals can’t speak to tell you how they were treated behind closed doors. The only training I would be willing to do is if I was present for all training sessions and the trainer involved me in as part of the training.
 
@katiemomandstudent I have told so many people never to leave your dog with a trainer. No program that I’m aware of takes your dog without you being there and is actually quality. A good trainer WANTS you there because to train your dog you have to be trained too.
 
@katiemomandstudent Sorry for length, TL;DR at bottom.

I am going to politely disagree with you guys in the hopes of spreading some info- it is not inherently bad to leave your dog with a trainer for a board and train program.

It is, however, an absolutely atrocious idea to leave your dog with a trainer that isn't certified and R+, and to leave your dog with someone who wants to keep them for longer than 2 weeks and not involve you in the training in any way. When finding a trainer, you want to look for someone who is cross certified (ex, CPDT-KA & CBCC-KA), who you've met with to discuss the training in great detail, and who is eager to send you daily video updates and record and share all training sessions while your dog is with them.

In a perfect world, the owner/guardian of a pup would be the one who trains them, as it can greatly help with bonding, better understanding of the pup's behavior, and improve their day-to-day interactions. But we don't live in a perfect world, and it's not always realistic for an individual/family to be able to train their own dog.

Some examples of B&T's that I have witnessed as a professional R+ trainer who worked for a company that offered boarding and training-

An elderly woman was gifted a very rambunctious Yorkie puppy by well-meaning children to provide comfort and companionship after her husband's death. She had Yorkies her whole life and had trained many, but had significant mobility issues and physically couldn't get the timing right to train the pup, even with a clicker and verbal marker. She was entirely able and willing to care for the Yorkie (and they share a wonderful life now), but just needed lots of help with the initial training surrounding potty issues, jumping, mouthing, and socialization (as she didn't not drive anymore and lived in a rural area with few options for socialization).

A student at the beginning of several weeks of extremely important/difficult to study for exams found a stray dog that she immediately bonded with and desperately wanted to keep, not rehome. The timing was horrible as she had to focus all of her attention on school in order to pass exams that were extremely important in her career (can't remember specifics, this was years ago). We took the dog for B&T, allowing her to finish her exams and then focus her attention entirely on working with her new companion and providing him an excellent life. He had several behaviors that needed immediate attention that actively prevented her from studying, and family members were unwilling/unable to help with a dog that had no training and crazy high energy levels. Last I heard she has several trick titles on the pup and they have a very active/happy life together.

A family with young children where neither parent had much experience with dogs decided to get a puppy after extensive begging from the kids. There was another baby on the way and the stay-at-home mom had her hands full, and both parents significantly underestimated the work that a puppy entails. The youngest child, a toddler, was especially struggling and developed a fear of the puppy, and the parents had done a private lesson but were really struggling to implement the training. They knew rehoming the dog would have absolutely devastated the two other children. We did a B&T to be able to manage some of the pup's antics, and involved the entire family heavily in the post B&T training sessions. The toddler completely overcame his fear once the pup had learned not to jump/cut back on mouthing, and while they still had some work to do, the initial skills that had been taught (like "Go To Your Bed") made it so that the pup was manageable in a busy household and they were able to keep the dog. Now, nearly a year later, they are working towards their CGC.

These are just a few examples but I can think of many instances where sending the dog away for training kept the dog out of the shelter. Again, in a perfect world, everyone would be able to be heavily involved in training their own dogs but it's just not always realistic. Also, hot take- not everyone who gets a dog has to have a passion for behavior/training, and it is perfectly valid to want to be a dog guardian but not be spearheading all of the training. Some people just don't care about that aspect of dog ownership, and while it's important that they understand the basics and can apply them, there's nothing inherently wrong with not wanting to train your dog yourself.

Side note, I mention that B&T programs shouldn't be longer than 2 weeks because it's not ideal for a dog to be in a boarding/training environment longer than that, and any legit trainer is going to be able to make huge strides in 2 weeks, allowing the pup to return home with significantly improved behavior that the owner can continue to work on individually.

All of this is to say- what happened at this facility is abhorrent and I was brought to tears watching the videos, but legit boarding and training programs shouldn't be demonized.

TL;DR- There is no excusing the atrocities that took place at the above "training" facility, but boarding and training programs aren't inherently bad and can actually have a very positive impact (keeping dogs out of shelters/improved quality of life for both dog guardians/dogs themselves). Always find legit, cross-certified R+ trainers and keep an open mind!
 
@gagthegoose Love this. As an R+ trainer, although I'm HIGHLY skeptical of B&T's, and encourage owners to ask A LOT of questions and be on the lookout for red flags, there are definitely times where a B&T program can be beneficial. Instances in which I've seen it have the most benefit are for anxiety/reactivity behaviours, mainly because the dog's regular environment can become part of their trigger/s for those feelings and behaviours. Often, owners don't have the ability to be constantly driving their dogs to new locations to work on those behaviours. Going to a B&T program, in those circumstances, can be similar to using behavioural meds, in that it doesn't "fix" the problem - but it does provide the dog the physical, mental and emotional space for behavioiural modification training to take place.
 
@mim4you But unfortunately this is the exception and not the rule most owners will simply not stick to a training plan even with the most enthusiasm in the world if they don’t see instant results they will quickly give up and the reality is that good dog training takes effort - I would love to be that person who says well you should have thought of that before you got the dog as the vast majority of people really are “out dogged” by that I mean there dog is smarter or more energetic than suits their lifestyle but there isn’t simply enough space in rescue to advocate they rehome their dogs so training and for the most part an ethical board and train might be their best option

I had a vet say to me once I can’t even get clients to give their dogs medication on time - how do you get them to train their dogs over time ?
To which I replied to be a good dog trainer to you’ve got to be good at training people - training dogs is the easy part😅
 
@mim4you I researched the obedience school we took our girl to. They had 5 star reviews, very few negative ones and they mostly commented on how the place was too crowded and such.

Unfortunately due to COVID I couldn't spectate a session before signing up.

Things we witnessed:
- way too hard collar pops, literally flinging dogs multiple feet, including martingales on brachy breeds and doing corrections on them.
- holding my girl in the air to force her into a sit on a flat collar and a gentle leader.
- said that we should force our girl to sit next to the washing machine because she was scared of the sound of it.

I will never go back. Sometimes reviews can be misleading. Definitely spectate before you go.
 
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