Need honest answers on getting this ball (maybe) rolling…

[sustainableblueberry]

@james1131 Because it will give you a chance to build the “eye” for what pairs well together. When you haven’t had any litters, you would be basically solely relying upon the knowledge of your breeder for that—which depending upon the breeder’s ability to explain “the eye” and how a particular pairing would be an either good fit or a poor choice for a pairing in how to better improve the breed. I’m not saying that owners of the males don’t approach owners of females to seek out a pairing, but IME it’s more often that owners of the females seek out the stud, and you have to have the stronger discerning eye for whether it would be a good pairing or not—and the confidence to tell people no. Now showing and getting to know the breed standard is going to be helpful in gaining the eye, but it’s really going to take experience in seeing hands on too.

 

[andyfoundlight]

@james1131 No advice but I wish you very good luck!

 

[james1131]

@andyfoundlight Thank you!

 

[carolinafan74]

@james1131 I do not have any answers for owning a bitch/whelping a litter but I do own stud dogs as a hobby!

I feel like getting a male to learn about showing or sports is a great idea, it often means a co-ownership if you're able to get on good terms with a breeder, and often times they will be willing to mentor you or help you find a breeding mentor. Owning stud dogs is a good way to see a wide variety of breeding programs of others and figure out what puppy raising practices you do or do not like.

I believe every breeding dog should have at least a conformation title unless the breed split is wide between working and showline. No one looking for a reputable breeder will go to a kennel with no confo titles, and no good owners would want to stud out to a bitch with no titles. I also think showing my boy has been the most rewarding and fun thing ever, I've gotten a new prospect since my first failed his health testing, and even though he's a working line I went out of my way to get a puppy that can play in conformation. Even if you do one or two days of a show every few months, you'll be able to get somewhere.

I really recommend looking into UKC instead of AKC as a new handler as well, it's a lot more beginner friendly and the judges tend to be looking at the dogs instead of the flashiness of the competition, I've gotten amazing feedback many times.

I also believe preformance titles really make your breeding program look a lot nicer, including therapy work. More people looking for service/working dogs will gravitate to your program. In my breed, German Shepherds, if a male dog doesn't have a performance title it wouldn't even be considered.

Please let me know if I'm missing things or if you want to discuss anything, I've been in the same spot as you before and have really gotten a lot out of the purebred dog world

 

[james1131]

@carolinafan74 Thank you so much! This is great info! Studding seems so much less overwhelming as a starting platform, but I suppose the dog would have to prove himself before we even got there!

 

[carolinafan74]

@james1131 Since most people won't breed to studs under a certain age, you have plenty of time to get those titles and prove him. My first stud prospect had a UKC CH on him about 6 months before he was eligible for his health testing at 2 years old. If he had passed his tests I would have still waited 2-3 years to breed him at the minimum to make sure he stayed healthy, as a close-ish relatives of his died with no identifiable cause around that age. That's also the reason many stud owners freeze their dog's sperm, as then you can even breed from them after they've passed away

 

[james1131]

@carolinafan74 How long did it take you to get your first prospect his UKC CH? Based on those numbers, about a year and a half?

How often do people express an interest in breeding with your studs? I imagine the more highly titled ones are most popular, and I suppose it also depends on the popularity of the breed.

 

[mark0086]

@james1131 I have a stud dog along with my bitches. He’s older now but during his early years I had a lot of requests to breed to him. He was huge, sweetest boy ever with an amazing coat.

This was all after I got a grand championship on him by 3 years old. However it’s still your responsibility to look into any bitch wanting to breed to your dog. Are they healthy, are they finished, what about her parents, grandparents. Is their conformation compatible? What is she bringing to the table that will help any short comings your dog may have and visa versa . It’s not just getting your dog collected and shipping semen off.

If you’re doing live cover she needs testing for any communicable diseases too. You have to protect your stud. Just having a stud isn’t going to really get you involved with breeding on the big stage. Also there’s always going to be a lot of other studs out there with proven pre potency. Dogs that are winning at national shows etc. that’s who folks want to breed to.

I bred one of my bitches to the best of breed winner from Westminster a number of years ago. That’s what bitch owners are looking for. The best of the best. Hunt titles, obedience titles, therapy certifications etc. all those things help your dog get mileage as a stud.

That’s why we start out with bitches. If an amazing dog puppy comes along we might end up keeping them for possible stud down the line.

 

[james1131]

@mark0086 Great info! I appreciate it!

 

[carolinafan74]

@james1131 I'd say my first prospect took about a year and a half. He's a longcoat GSD and they don't do very well in American show rings, so it was a very slow process. We went to one 2-4 day show a little less than once a month I would say, I can definitely find more exact numbers if you'd like. ukcdogs.com The UKC site lists show premiums on each event.

I never got to studding my older dog out as he failed his hips, but we have had a lot of byb people approach us about breeding to him. My mentor is an exceptional breeder and was doing all advertising related to him, but with GSDs there is the added benefit of big regional sport trials where people are often looking for furure stud dogs.

My second stud prospect doesn't have the titles I want on him to be advertised yet, he may also not be a super successful stud once he is available, just because of his squareness and size

 

[james1131]

@carolinafan74 Do you stud out to the byb folks? Excuse my ignorance, but isn’t byb typically synonymous with puppy mill?

 

[carolinafan74]

@james1131 Of course not, I try to make them feel bad as gently as possible by asking what titles their dog has, if it has at least an IPO2/high level nosework title'and if it's health tested. They always say no obviously so they don't get my dog. I'm not necessarily against mix breed breeding but the dog would still need to prove themselves, and byb and random people are not doing that

 

[carolinafan74]

@james1131 I also saw you're looking for numbers to help you calculate prices.

For reference I spend about $200-$300 for a full 3-4 day weekend of showing with one dog. One of my mentors spends roughly $800-1000, and my other spends around $600, this is for 4-6 dogs and 3-4 dogs for most days of a show. To get my older boy to his CH we spent roughly $2200, and went to shows fairly regularly for about a year. A Great Dane breeder I know spends a few thousand per show. From what I've seen, breeder/bitch owners spend a lot more since many breeding programs have multiple dogs.

(I also forgot to mention UKC does not allow paid professional handlers so it drives down competition a lot in most cases)

Health testing radiographs cost us about $500.

 

[james1131]

@carolinafan74 You’re awesome! Yes, that was definitely my big question. As much as I love the idea of making goldens my passionate project, I also have several human mouths to feed lol.

So, thinking in terms of annual expenses, you mention currently spending $200-300 for a 3-4 day weekend of showing your current pup. Your older dog you said you invested $2200 to him to CH. (“CH” means champion, yes?) So, that was $2200 over the cost of a year? In terms of show fees alone? You said you went to shows “pretty regularly” for a year? How often was that? Based on your numbers, are we looking at monthly?