Need help with training morals, my head hurts lol

[thehindubrahmin]

@nc17 Hi. I am Balanced Trainer. First of all, I am sorry you encountered those “balanced trainers” that shamed you. They are simply idiots. Balance training uses all 4 quadrants of operant conditioning, being R+ the MOST important. You see, almost 80% of your training will be done with R+ and R- will help you too. To teach and motivate a dog you will need the reward to increase the behavior and R- will aid you to make your command (sit down whatever) solid. That’s how a prong collar works. You will make your dog heel with rewards but he also needs to turn the prong collar’s pressure off. He will begin to remove the pressure (R-) by staying next to you. Pressure does not mean yanking! It means simply applying mild pressure.

Now, after your dog learns what this pressure mechanism gives him in return (pressure turns off and receives a treat for beng next to you, hoe convenient!), you can start adding corrections which means a really neutral and quick leash pop. P+ will be added when the dog is not confused and knows the command well but still does not comply (because yes, there are strong doggos personalities out there). P- is always used, don’t even think about it, it just comes naturally in training since we are always withholding something without even thinking about it (attention or treats, whatever). Don’t get too stuck on it, and it will happen anyway at sone point. The point of balance training is to create discipline; this means the doggo knows the command, and sometimes he will not want to comply but WILL DO IT because he HAS to (your dog’s life depends on it since he is aggressive and could bite a person).

In your case, I would really start putting structure at home. No free roaming all day, train with his food, make him earn everything, even the walks. Your doggo needs to be crate trained and also use a muzzle outside (teach him what a muzzle means with a reward). Start teaching what the prong means at home first. Even other commands, Do it there. Don’t go straight outside, it is too much for him right now, this takes time, patience and commitment.

You know your doggo, keep him safe. Don’t let other people shame you. Consequences (pleasant or not) are part of life, and your dog will thrive on that. Believe me. (And also, find a GOOD balanced trainer in your area).
Good luck!

 

[peter67]

@nc17 The moment you train dogs For the dogs is when the mental block about R+, correction, etc goes away.

Lots of people who criticize either training ideology poles don't even have the experience and knowledge that you have. They are just being political and feeling good about themselves thinking they know everything.

You being confused is the starting of understanding the truth about dog training.

There are also people who will throw big words and terms but the truth is they have shallow understanding of those concepts.

 

[drzoidberg]

@nc17 Every dog is different. What works for your first may not work for your second. I know you love the group you’ve come to know, but if they’re going to bash you for what doesn’t work, then you need to find a new group. Or you could always go through the effort of showing them and educating them of the benefits of balanced. My neighbors don’t like my methods much, they always insert little passive aggressive comments, but are always impressed when my dog behaves more appropriately (and he does get rewarded!) My self-consciousness wavers a lot too. It’s tough. I’ve never really explained myself much, but I hope just by what they’ve seen that can be accomplished, I’ve opened their minds a bit. Now, luckily, I’ve found a group of people and trainers that I’d call truly balanced because they don’t always use aversive tools if the dog doesn’t need them.

 

[dummies01]

@nc17 Train the dog in front of you. If you have having awesome results with R+ based methods, Great! If you are having awesome results using all 4 quadrants, Great!

 

[craig34]

@nc17 Four years!!! Most people wouldn’t have made it this long. You obviously are committed to this dog.

My opinion (not a pro, I am a new owner doing a terrible job training my own dog who is a soft Labrador retriever) is that with these kinds of issues...the moral option is to do what you must to maintain order and prevent attacks. A dog who is violently pulling and reacting isnt a happy dog...better to be managed through physical corrections and tools than dead because you didn’t manage her or couldn’t train her with R+.

 

[axolotl]

@nc17 The best solution for pulling is not a prong, by the way, although it can often mostly work. The best solution for pulling is an ecollar. Used correctly, it will not have to be very aversive, and the results will shine and persist. Period. I really hope you don't get sucked into more roundabout nonsolutions. You can see vast results in one session. Things can be totally fixed in a handful. Good luck.