Need help with our dog on walks (x-post r/dogtraining)

mollym029

New member
This is Gobbles. Gobbles is a 2 year old mixed that we rescued at the end of April this year. He's loving, friendly, smart, playful, extremely cuddly, and just an overall big doofus. He's also extremely hyper and ADHD to the point of making my ADHD look sedated. The fosters told us that he was a pleasure to walk, which turned out to be a bold faced giant sack of DS (dog $&^%). While he's relatively good in the house, his recall in the yard has gotten loads better, and his overall manners have improved, walking him on a leash is an extremely stressful and unenjoyable experience. He is all over the place - it is impossible to get him to focus on us for more then 30 seconds, even with treats, the minute he sees or hears another dog, he goes ballistic and uses all of his 75lbs to pull myself or my wife down the street, and it's gotten to the point where I've either needed to drag him (choking him in the process) down the street, or literally today had to tackle him because I couldn't get him to stop and he almost pulled me over. It's at the point where I'm sure the neighbors that don't know us think we're insane and are abusing our dog, which is 100% not the case. Along with that, he is so distracted, and kind of anxious, about absolutely EVERYTHING. Dog barks 6 miles away? He's focused on that. Car door closes a few houses down? Good lock trying to get him to look at you. His lack of focus when we're outside of our property walking is astonishing. I'm a middle school teacher, so I've seen a lot of unfocused hyperactive kids, but Gobbles makes them all look perfectly calm. In the house, he'll whine for attention or just if he's bored, and he does have a ton of energy, which is understandable for a 2 year old puppy who is in his 4th home, and that's all ok - it's the walks that are the problems. To be fair, they are better than they were at the end of April when we got him, but at this point, they kind of hit a plateau near the mid-end of August.

For a little bit of background, Gobbles is our 5th dog in 13 years. We currently have 2 other girls, a 9 year old dobie mix and a 11 year old cockapoo, before that we had a rottie/lab mix that we had before we got the 2 girls and passed last year, and then our first dog who was a dobie mix and had sever neurological issues that we were unaware of when we adopted him and had to learn how to train dogs. While we're def. not professional dog trainers, we are constantly complimented on how well our dogs (minus Gobbles) behave and walk both on leash and off. I was a big trail runner for a few years, so the rottie and my current 2 girls were trained for off leash woods excursions and were immaculate in their performance. So while I don't know everything, I've had incredible success with the first 4 dogs we adopted.

Here are all the things we have tried and have not worked. All of them have also involved treats and positive reinforcement, though at some points, negative reinforcement has been used, as well. Right now we're using a martingale so he can't escape if he pulls or tries to get out of it.
  1. Halti - both the face and body kind that latches in the front. These did absolutely nothing.
  2. Remote collar - give me all the crap you want about it, but when you're running with 3 dogs of leash in the woods, having these is a fantastic precaution and all of them had learned the tone meant to come so I didn't need to ruin the serenity of the woods. While the collar worked well with him when I was up in NH visiting family in the middle of nowhere without a fenced in yard, it really doesn't translate to leash walking.
  3. Clicker and treats - teaching the basics of walk, look (or "watch me"), plus the other basics (sit, paw, lay down, go to bed). In the house, he's a friggin' champ, and on walks with absolutely NO distractions, he's pretty good. As for treats, we've tried so many different kinds, including fresh cooked chicken, steak, cheese, etc. There is no high reward that is more exciting than that damn dog bark 18 miles away.
  4. Walking in circles - when he starts pulling, we give the heel command, turn around, and walk the other way. This works for about 30 seconds before he stops focusing and starts pulling again. I could spend an hour walking a 100ft stretch of road back and forth and still not see real improvement.
  5. Positive energy - no no, not that hippie stuff, more like trying to be more exciting and such than everything else around him. While my wife is better at that than I (I can maybe keep that up for 5 minutes), it still only works sometimes, and is def. overpowered by other stuff.
The only time that he's really good is if he's really tired, but that takes so much work. Yesterday, we did a 3 mile walk, then immediately played at the dog park for 30 minutes, then came home and 2 hours later he played with the neighbor dogs for 30-45 minutes as if the morning had never happened. Sometimes I'll put his harness on that has padding on the chest and I throw on my rollerblades and he'll pull me for 2-3 miles. He loves it. Then an hour later, he's ready to go again.

We can't currently afford a trainer to help us out, and we don't want to be seen as those crazy ass neighbors with the crazy dog. He's really such a great boy, but this walking thing has to be reigned in a bit. We know it takes time, we got that, we don't have kids so we dedicated our energy to our dogs, but this is the first time since our first dog 13 years ago that we're at a loss as to what to do.
 
@mollym029 So, by your own admission, many of those tactics work with him. "In the house, he's a friggin' champ."

The problem here is that you're expecting WAY too much of him at once. You can't teach sit in the house and then go to the dog park and expect him to listen. You're confusing the heck out of him and making it harder for him and yourself.

Start over. No dog parks, no hour long training sessions, no meeting other dogs or kids while on leash/walks.

Do your rollerblading early in the AM (hope you're using a harness, not collar) and tire him out. Afternoon is 15-30 min of good, valuable training (it will tire him out almost as much as a 3 mi run.) Teach him some manners around the rollerblading, though, don't just grab the leash with tons of excitement and urge him to run run run. Make him sit or down before getting the harness on, make him warm up slowly. The run is the reward, and you don't want him to learn that every outing is a crazy free-for-all.

If he sits great in the house, he needs to learn that "sit" applies everywhere else, too. those are brand new lessons. So make sure he has whatever basics you want down really good in the house - I mean GOOD- no distractions. Sit, down, stay, watch me.

Then move to your back yard. No distractions! No other dogs, noisy kids next door, etc. There will be some, like the dog barking 6 blocks away, that's you can't control, but it should be barely a step up from indoors. Start over and teach him the basics again like he never knew them. No halti, no e-collar, no prong - those are tools for specific issues - just LOTS of treats and positive energy right now. Look up how to gamify things - toss a treat a few feet away so he goes for it, back up quickly while he's going for it and say "come!" Another treat for coming. Eventually drop second treat, the toss treat is reward for coming, etc.

Step up in TINY increments - when he's a friggin' champ in the back yard, move to front yard (during a quiet time of day, no dogs walking by.) When he's a friggin' champ in the front yard,then move to another slightly more distracting location, etc. I was literally doing this stuff in the parking lot of the vet's office yesterday with my 2yo.

From your house to the corner is a huge jump. Barky dog in one house? It's a whole other situation. Halloween inflatables? Kids on bikes. Yep, all different to him. "I know I have to sit in the house, but out here there's so much going on!"

When there's a super distraction, treattreattreattreattreat until that other dog or bike passes. He'll learn that when a dog appears, you're suddenly super interesting. I also use a quick jog to get my dog's attention - sudden happy voice "let's go fast!" "Yay, you!" and we're running an playing for a hundred yards or so until past the other dog.

To transition away from treats, find out what he loves the most, and that's the reward - like the run, or even just moving forward on a walk.

ADHD makes us a bit less patient, and apt to forget "what am I supposed to do now?" or the right command for a situation. Reminding yourself that every new location is a brand new concept for the dog, and that you need to start from scratch helps. It does click for the dog, btw, and he'll start learning faster.
 
@vtoggy This is great. I think you nailed it on the head with the impulse control thing. We did start reteaching the basics when we first got him and we made sure our girls (who are old and a bit bratty at this point) acted as good role models.

Here's the crazy thing - when I take him to the dog park, I can make him sit and wait for me to open the dog park gate, and then he doesn't run into the park until I say "OK". He's got that down about 95% of the time. Same with when it's time to go - as long as I get close enough to him and say "alright bud, let's go", he'll follow me out 95% of the time. When our neighbor dogs come over, same thing - 95% of the time, I can make him come to me, sit and wait, then I release when they're in the yard and unleashed. On walks, if the other dog is far enough away, he'll sit on command but get very very anxious and start whining and barking, but still mostly sitting. Once they get closer, though, that's a different story.

As for the rollerblading, the manners are def. necessary so he doesn't kill me. Our first dog was a champ at it. Most definitely using a harness, a collar would be insane to try and use for so many reasons.

Thanks for the in-depth reply. You kind of told me what I already knew but didn't have the energy right now to put out. But fudge it, we gotta do it so let's make it happen. Thanks for the inspiration!
 
@mollym029
Here's the crazy thing - when I take him to the dog park, I can make him sit and wait for me to open the dog park gate, and then he doesn't run into the park until I say "OK".

That's the value of PREMACK work at place. The trip into the dog park is valuable enough to make the behavior pay well ... so you may also want to do more PREMACK style work, or consider whether your reward schedule (both frequency and type) are valuable enough for the training you're doing.
 
@doks Had to look up PREMACK. So basically it’s just super high reward? This dogs only real drive is to play with other dogs. Not food, not me or my wife, not even his sisters who aren’t much for playing. I guess that’s why he does it with the neighbor dogs, too. We’ve been struggling to find something more enticing than playing with other dogs.
 
@mollym029 Also take a look into some look and dismiss, or engage and disengage games. You want him to learn to be neutral around dogs out on walks, and that barking isn't going to get him anywhere.

How is with other dogs around when roller blading?
 
@lilliana A bit dangerous on the skates. Haha. Thankfully, it's the only sport I'm somewhat awesome at! But yeah. It's not the safest thing just yet.

What kind of games are you talking about? Is it something easily googleable?
 
@mollym029 About a year ago, I was in your exact same situation, adopted a 5 year old 75 lb. pitbull with terrible leash manners. Last week, we finally went on a brisk walk where she only got distracted a couple of times. All the advice from Daintysaurus is spot-on. It just takes time and patience. I want to add that consistency is key! If I do a little 5 minute training session every day, she progresses rapidly, but if I skip more than one day of training, she regresses by two days.
 
@godgirl8767 I used prong collars with our first dog, so we have that knowledge down. I'm hesitant to use it with this guy due to his skin issues (very sensitive and any real rubbing causes really bad reactions). But I may need to give it a shot on him.
 
@mollym029 &maybe you're using the wrong kind and size of prong collar? I just realised yesterday I've been using a prong collar that's too big for my 10 mo old girl. The collar also needs to sit right below the dogs ears, not lower on the neck!
 
@oml Oh yeah, we're totally sure it's right. We used one extensively with our first dog so we're well versed in using it. We needed it then due to aggression issues.
 
@mollym029 If you use a hermspringer it should be fine! They have really nice rounded tips, they are very quality. They are known for their horse bits, which go in mouths so they definitely don’t use any toxic stuff
 
Back
Top