Merle

[crs_7]

We got a litter last summer, and i have a puppy from that litter. He’s a chihuahua mix, and his dad is blue merle. There were 6 pups. 2 white, 2 beige, 1 black and one that had the typical blue merle pattern, grev with black spots and white on the chest, not blue eyes. Their mom is beige/white. And yes, he is the only possible father since the puppies were planned since long before that heat cycle. Now my puppy is one of the white ones. Im not planning on breeding him, but if i were, with a white female, could the pups get that blue merle pattern like his brother? like the gray/black? ofc the female wouldn’t be merle so just his merle genes, but he’s white.

 

[lumiere]

@crs_7 Merle puppies only come from merle parents. It's not a hidden gene. It either isn't there (mm), Shows up (Mm), or you get double merle (MM) which is very unhealthy and usually causes blindness and/or deafness.

There is a lot of things needed to be a good and responsible breeder, so if you think about breeding, please look into responsible breeding and how irresponsible breeders add more dogs to shelters and create unhealthy pups. People here breed to better their breed and create healthy puppies who will go to good homes and never end up in shelters.

 

[brycliff]

@lumiere thank you for this.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@lumiere While a genetic test will tell without a doubt if a dog is merle, there are "cryptic merles" that don't visibly show merle pattern but still carry merle. It's more likely to go missed in a white dog because sections showing merle hide in the light coat

 

[lumiere]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Merle can be kind of complicated, so I decided to keep it simple, but yes, there are such things as cryptic merle where you can't tell if your dog is actually merle. It has a lot to do with the length of the Merle gene itself. There has also been studies done on how risky it is to breed certain lengths of different merle genes to one another. While breeding a cryptic merle to another cryptic merle is safe, breeding a cryptic merle plus to a harlequin merle offers medium risks. There are tests that can be done to tell you what length the merle gene is in your dog. They can be non-merle, cryptic merle, cryptic merle plus, atypical merle, atypical merle plus, classic merle, or harlequin merle. It's kind of complicated, so it's easier to describe Merle as the way I did.

Sorry, I find the merle gene really cool. I read all about it in "Merle - SINE Insertion from Mc - Mh. The Incredible Story of Merle" by Mary Langevin. I don't have any personal experience with the merle gene but it was a very interesting read.

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@lumiere Haha you are clearly more knowledgeable on the pattern! I simply wanted to point out for OP that it is possible (though unlikely) for their dog to be merle even if it doesn't appear to be at first glance.

 

[lumiere]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Yeahhh. It's probably good to point that out. If OP does decide to breed, they hopefully don't make any deaf or blind puppies at the very least.

 

[crs_7]

@lumiere Yes im aware of what happens with double merle, so i wouldn’t have a merle bitch if i were to breed him, which i’m not planning on it was just a hypothetical question.

I’m very qualified to care for dogs and breed them, i have worked with and studied dogs for quite a while and im about to graduate (canine studies) next week. I have worked with dogs and i have had litters etc and i will be breeding litters in the future. It’s very important to me to both keep the breed standards going, and not breeding from one perspective, like breeding dogs for looks and not looking at how healthy the pups would be etc. And provide each litter with proper enrichment and the best environment to grow up in. It’s just as important for me to find good homes, and I will not be breeding sit around at home-dogs. I have not decided on a breed yet, but i will be picky with the buyers and i will be taking back the pup if they dont want to keep it. Dogs mean everything to me and i would never breed just to make money or cuddle with puppies, i want to improve and keep the things that the breed is made for while also thinking about the individual puppies i breed.

 

[paska]

@crs_7 I think what they're saying is your dog can't produce merle puppies at all because if they have the merle gene at all it is expressed. The only puppy in the litter that got the merle gene was the merle puppy.

 

[kowon]

@crs_7 can't answer your question and if no one else can, I recommend asking in the FB group coat colors and genetics

 

[brycliff]

@crs_7 Please stop breeding your mutts. There are literally thousands of chihuahua mutts in shelters all over the country.

 

[crs_7]

@brycliff well my parents chose to do that with their bitch, im not planning on breeding any mutts myself.

edit: as far as i know there isn’t a lot of shelters here, theres like 3 that i know of in the entire country… that does not make breeding mutts any better, but there aren’t that many dogs to adopt that i know of.

 

[thebelovedofgod]

@crs_7 Unfortunately, “few shelters” does not mean “few unhomed/adoptable dogs.”

Resources are spread thin nowadays and there are record numbers of dogs in need everywhere, largely due to irresponsible breeding and demand during the pandemic.

I live in a major city in the SF Bay Area and bc there are not really any resources to start new form shelters, people are literally creating rescue centers in their backyards for abandoned dogs. The rescues aren’t even googleable because they are just people desperate to help but lacking formal credentials or recognition. Some of these rescues are bringing in dogs from rural areas or even other states, thinking the dogs are less likely to be euthanized in California. Sadly, dogs are getting euthanized in record numbers, even at Californian “no kill” shelters.

Please think of these dogs and do not participate in irresponsible breeding at this time!

 

[imagebeastmarkbeast]

@thebelovedofgod Not everywhere is the US. The situation in California sucks, but applying bay area shelter issues to other countries isn't a good comparison. Plenty of countries have very limited unhomed dog numbers and are not in shelter crisis.

 

[thebelovedofgod]

@imagebeastmarkbeast Fair point! I apologize for coming off as ethnocentric.

So much of my comment can be (rightly) ignored by so much of the world …

But I hope everyone everywhere can support ethical breeding practices that result in quality homes for the pups!

 

[crs_7]

@thebelovedofgod I live in sweden, its very common here to “sell” your dog if you can’t take care of it anymore, in fact, its basically the only way you give up a dog, and people want these dogs and can pay quite a lot for an adult dog, even mutts. It stays in its home until the minute the new family “buys” it and takes it home. Three of our dogs were adopted this way. There are very few shelters because of this system, and the laws and rules for keeping animals are very strict, because dogs deserve the best.

edit: Im my whole life, i have never heard of or seen any abandoned dogs, they never get dumped, even if the owner doesn’t want the dog it never gets dumped. They can write on eg facebook that they need someone to take the dog and within minutes or hours, the dog has a new loving home.

 

[thebelovedofgod]

@crs_7 That’s excellent!

I apologize for my ethnocentric phrasing.

To be fair, I think there are a lot of ways in which Sweden has already “leveled up” as a society, including responsible approaches to animals. I wish we could have more of that sort of value-centric progress in the US.

 

[brycliff]

@crs_7 You literally came to a dog breeding sub to ask about hypothetically breeding your dog. I’m sure you’re considering it. And you shouldn’t.

 

[crs_7]

@brycliff I will be breeding dogs in the future, but i will not be breeding my puppy, he is a mutt and he’s very shy and not fitted for breeding. Im studying canine studies and i will graduate next week, i have worked with dogs, and i am very qualified for breeding dogs, (which my pup isn’t). You can se my other comment about whats important to me when breeding. I just had one hypothetical question using my dog as a reference . Some people think about breeding doodles or pomchis, I wonder if a white pup could produce pups with merle colors.

 

[katy777]

@crs_7 When I was young, my mother wanted to breed a mutt male who was very handsome. Both ended up with disappointing unattractive pups and more unwanted dogs. I will always carry these emotional scars of the results of too many dogs that I loved on our property.

I say that to say I understand why people want to breed mutts and I don’t think it’s wholesale all bad since many mutts can have very healthy genes. However, in your situation, you took two purebred dogs and bred them intentionally. I’m not sure of your goal, but you would want to get DNA tests on both dogs for breed-specific congenital diseases. You would want to use UC Davis since Embark and Wisdom Panel don’t test for all defects.

With that out of the way, breeding merle chihuahuas appears to be a significant problem, which could create puppies who are carriers of the merle gene, and could potentially have double merles (explained in another post).

I think the chihuahua as a breed has fallen very far away from what a dog should be. I have a Rat-Chi and I have thought about breeding him because he’s beautiful, healthy, great size, and I would love at least one of his puppies. I’m probably going to get him fixed because the Rat-Chi looks so varied, mostly like chihuahuas, and I think the purebred rat terrier is a varied enough dog to serve the purpose of a healthy small dog that still looks like a dog rather than a cartoon character.