Just some questions! I might also post a few more later!

[bpps]

Hi! So I just have questions. This will probably be long, so get ready.

How it started, I'm in 4-H. My dog and I just got her first title! Her Virtual Home Manners Title. My club did the test over zoom with our club leader (who is an evaluator herself) and me and my dog passed it! We filled out all the paperwork and she's going to get her first title when we send it to my club leader (if she turns it in, it's free and we don't have to pay). It got me thinking. I've always had 'Dog Breeder' in my list of career choices. But now, it's becoming a bigger thing for me.

I want to be a German Shepherd breeder (obviously German Shepherds, I mean, they're my favorite breed and I want to help improve the breed!). And I just have some questions. This will be in years to come because I'm not an adult.

1) If I do proceed with breeding German Shepherds, for example, do I have to stick to breeding just show lines or just working lines? Or it is ok to breed two different lines (obviously not together, but separately breed work lines and then breed show lines)? Also, are there any other German Shepherd lines?

2) How many dogs do you breeders have? How many males? How many females?

a. How many did you start out with? 2? One female and someone else's ? A and someone else's ?

3) Do you keep all your dogs inside? Outside?

4) What types of things should I do with my dogs? What sports? What types of shows? Should I do Obedience, Rally, Confirmation, Showmanship with every dog? Should I do Schutzhund with every dog? Should I do Agility? Scent work? Herding?

a. I want to start Schutzhund with my 8-month-old, but it would be too stressful for me right now. I'm working on getting my mental health better right now before I start Schutzhund. I've never done a dog sport with any of my dogs before.

5) With my dog getting her first title, I learned you have to register your dog, so we are registering her with PALS (I think, either that or the Canine Partners) and I chose her registered name (took me two days and the help of my club leader to choose one- I had a whole list).

6) What titles should I get for my dogs?

7) Is it bad to make up some sort of application sheet/form for prospective buyers? Like a sheet of questions, I ask them and write down their questions so I know they meet the standards I want for my puppies owners? I know it's a lot, but I want my dogs to go to good homes- they need a fenced yard, to have researched the breed and not just saw a Shepherd and buys one on impulse, they need to be active enough not just a walk around the neighborhood, if they are first-time dog/shepherd owners they need to know enough about the breed, they need to have a plan for training (I might offer something for training), I might want to hear from their vet, I'd want a house check (make sure they aren't lying), some agreement for pets to get fixed, and things like that. Is that too much?

8) How do spay/neuter and breeding rights work?

9) Is there anything I should look out for in a buyer? Any red flags?

10) Is it ok for me to make a list of what I want in a breeder when I find dogs for my breeding program? And for me to live up to those standards I set. (Is it also ok for when I want to just find a breeder for a dog that WON'T be apart of my breeding. I plan to get my very first purebred dog when I turn 18! Maybe even before that... I don't have a purebred dog right now, only mixes.)

11) Is it bad for me to go around asking questions and talking to German Shepherd (and maybe other breeds, just about dogs or breeding in general) owners at shows? and to take notes?

12) When I'm older, is there anything like a breeder taking in someone as a sort of mentee to learn about breeding that I should look into?

13) Should I have a number for just my kennel or just use my normal phone number?

14) How much property should I have? Is there a minimum for how much property I need? I do plan and want to have acres of land when I'm older, but is there a minimum of how much I need?

15) What age should a dog be bred?

16) What's better- finding a good local breeder near that fits my standards, finding a good dog that's a little far away, or importing a good dog from somewhere else?

17) How do I decide what lines I want to breed? (This will obviously be later when I start working on my business.)

18) What health tests would I need to do for my dogs before breeding?

19) What does a temperament test look like?

20) Should I have a trainer that I work with and become friends with? If any of my dogs happen to develop a behavioral problem or if a dog is returned to me with and has a behavioral problem that needs to be fixed?

21) Have you ever had a dog returned?

22) What would you do if you find out someone lied to you before and/or after they got the pup? (If they haven't got the pup and you figured out they lied or you figured out they lied about something after they went home with the pup.)

23) How do you find the price at which to sell your puppies? And make sure they aren't overpriced or underpriced?

24) Should the puppies go home at 8 or 9 weeks?

25) I can have other dog breeds, right? They will obviously be spayed/neutered and will NOT be bred.

Do not feel obligated to answer all of them, or any of them really. I know I could find out a couple of these just by searching it up on google, but I want YOUR opinions from real breeders.

Thanks!

 

[preciousleslee]

@bpps

1. not necessarily, however there are large difference in some breeds between show and working lines, and sometimes the crosses between the two lines don’t get the best of both parents and end up a little ugly. Other times they’re gorgeous.
2. Anyone with more than a handful of breeding dogs is a puppymill. I have two dogs currently. One retired and the other up and coming. It’s about quality, not quantity.
3. Breeding dogs are your family first and foremost. They are the same as any other dog. I keep mine inside because that’s how I’ve always had dogs
4. You should try all kinds of sports! My first dog I used to try out different things to find out what I enjoyed and what I didn’t. There is no reason to do a sport you don’t have fun doing.
5. Wasn’t a question do this is a placeholder
6. Titles you get are based on things you want to do and things you find valuable. I value temperament soundness just as much as I value structurally soundness, so my dogs do both performance titles and conformation titles. Totally personal
7. You don’t really need a written application per se, but yes, most breeders have requirements they look for in puppy people and you have a good list started.
8. Breeding rights are earned and not bought. You get the right to have a breeding dog after years of proving your interest, morals, and dedication to the breed. At that point you will be allowed to bring home a quality dog for future breeding. All other puppies are spayed/neutered based on their contracts. Most breeders do co-ownership or limited registration to help prevent people from breeding their pet dogs
9. Too long of a list to even start. You’ll learn about this as you get more involved in the community.
10. Yea sure, that’s a good list to start! You’ll find that your list right now is going to be pretty loose compared to what your own standards will become once you learn more
11. That’s fine. Be respectful and don’t freak out if they decline to answer when they’re just about to go in the ring, once they’re done showing for the day they’ll be more willing to talk. ALSO, you don’t need to talk to strictly GSD people. All breeds have educated breeders and it’s important to learn from other breeds
12. Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely mentorships are a thing. It will most likely be easiest to mentor under the breeder you get your first purebred from. That’s how most of us start and mentorships are mandatory for ethical breeding IMO
13. No. You should never be having so many litters that your phone is going crazy to the point where you need a separate number. That’s a puppymill. Kennel emails are pretty common though.
14. You won’t have 100 dogs, so you just need a normal home? A good backyard for your dogs to play? Otherwise nothing special
15. First breedings need to happen between 3-5ish years old. Dogs cannot have their full health testing done before 2 years old. And as dogs age their uterus gets weaker, so it becomes incredibly dangerous for the female to breed older dogs.
16. The goal is to find the best breeder and dog for you. Someone you get along with and approve of what they do. Wherever they are is wherever you get your puppy from
17. You learn as you go! No one can tell you what you are looking for in a stud dog
18. Check out the OFA website for required health testing for GSDs
19. I assume you’re asking For German Shepherds in conformation? The judge has you walk the dog to the middle of the ring, they walk up and see how the dog responds.
20. You’ll make trainer friends as you do more things with your dogs. But it’s not necessary
21. No but it does happen
22. That is what contracts are for
23. Your mentor will help you, but there is an average price for each breed that’s determined by the ethical breeding community
24. Very personal question and kind of depends on your chosen vaccine schedule. Also puppy evaluations can’t happen before 8 weeks old, so it’s usually close to 9?
25. Of course

You sound really eager and that’s wonderful, but my advice is to forget about breeding for the time being. Not because you shouldn’t do it, but because you’ve got other things to focus on first. Take your current dog and try some sports, then get your dream German shepherds and do some sports and get involved in the breeds community. THEN decide if you still enjoy that breed and want to be a breeder.

I started showing dogs at 4 years old, got MY first dog at 14 (as opposed to dogs just owned by the family), and it wasn’t until I was 20 before I got my own foundation dog. My apprenticeship was 6 years of hard work and learning about different sports and breeds and the community. I strongly recommend not rushing to start breeding, because the more time you spend learning means your first breeding will be that much better.

Let us know if you have any other questions, I’m sure anyone on this sub would be willing to answer and help you

 

[bpps]

@preciousleslee Thanks! This was perfect! I actually have been trying to get my mom to let me join the Schutzhund club near me with my GSD/Husky mix! But, she’s hasn’t said yes. I am starting agility with my other GSD mix soon though! And I might do my first rally trial soon! Thanks again though!!!

 

[frederic12]

@bpps @Civil_Disturbance has said most of what I would tell you. Get a mentor you can work hands on with in the GSD kennel club. They can take you through learning and handling similar to how the 4H clubs do it. I want to commend you on doing your research!!!! I can not tell you how many people skip the learning step and go straight to "How to have puppies". So Thank You for taking the very important first step of "Bettering The Breed". You may want to look into OFA. That is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. https://www.ofa.org/why-ofa/how-ofa-works as this, especially with your breed of choice, will be very important in the future. Great Luck to you and your new kennel!!

 

[flowork]

@bpps I hope you won't mind a general comment:

(This will obviously be later when I start working on my business.)

I think you'd do much better to think of dog breeding as a hobby that mostly pays for itself, not as a profit-making business.

I'm sorry to the hard-working and well-meaning people this insults, but I just can't see how you can be an ethical breeder and still bring in enough money to earn a real, honest-to-God middle class living at it. To earn half of minimum wage on the hours you put in? Sure. Maybe even minimum wage. But as a business, ethical dog breeding is way worse than just flippin' burgers.

 

[bpps]

@flowork Oh, that's fine! Thanks for the feedback!

 

[dukedesu]

@flowork Yeah I don’t think for most people doing this ethically it works out as a career choice because of the major potential losses in every litter. People are lucky to break even on it when you factor in the competitions as well.

 

[gideondavid40]

@bpps The only thing I would add is that some breeders do have more dogs. The comment of more than a handful of dogs is a puppy mill is grossly misleading.
As long as the dogs are well cared for and health tested and you have the finances to care for them etc there's nothing wrong with owning multiple dogs. Had 11 at one time and some of the bigger richer kennels I have been friends with had 18. Mostly bitches as you can stud.
You have to remember you shouldn't breed a bitch until she's 2-3 and you most likely won't/shouldn't breed a bitch every single heat so your dog will likely have 1 litter a year if you're lucky and you can only register 6 litters from 1 bitch even if she's a major stand out.
Start with research, then talking to people who've been in the breed for years, go to clubs of the breed, competitions, groups online or in person. Read some books and pedigrees. Just get an understanding of what you're looking for to breed the best dogs. All of that should help you discern the best lines for what you're after.

 

[dukedesu]

@bpps

1. Yeah I think it's fine to keep two lines of dogs, but it's better to start with a single focus.
2. I currently have 2 dogs, 2 bitches. I started out with a single male and showed him, then I got another male and showed him very successfully and I leased a bitch to breed him to. I will be leasing another bitch in the winter to breed.
3. My dogs are primarily indoor dogs, but I have a few kennel runs for bachelor pads and bitches in season. I will eventually build a heated/ac kennel.
4. Go to events and see what you like. You should try/see everything at least once that you have interest in.
5. Basically all good breeding stock should come already with registration unless it's like hunting dog mixes -- very few exceptions to this rule. PALs is like a pet registry, but it's good to have for trying sports.
6. For a pet dog, just try whatever. For breeding stock, take a look at what most reputable breeders are breeding their dogs on (in the breed/lines you're looking at) and go for those titles.
7. No, it's not too much and don't let anyone tell you it is.
8. In AKC you can put them on limited registration and a contract if it's a pet. If it's a breeding prospect you might want to co-own the bitch because you'll have to sign off also to register the offspring. It's very hard to control males, but you put them all on contracts. That scares away some ill intentioned people, but you have to know, you don't have control of anything fully that leaves your house.
9. Trust your gut instinct, ask a mentor if you aren't sure. If you aren't sure, it's usually best to not sell to them.
10. Sure! Make a list and check it when looking for breeders. Be a little reasonable though (not sure what you're putting on this list) and understand that not everything is in an ideal world. My big checkboxes include 1) successful at the sport I'm interested in. 2) they health test for breed relevant problems and are conscientious in their breeding decisions 3) they will always take back puppies in case of a problem 4) they have a good reputation among other breeders 5) the temperament of their dogs is something I want to live with 6) they keep up with/are accepting of new science
11. It is never bad to ask questions, unless they're just about to go into the ring -- then they might be busy.
12. Usually your dog's breeder will mentor you though this isn't always the case. You'll find people when you go to events.
13. You're thinking too far ahead on phone numbers.
14. Look at the animal ordinances for the county you are wanting to live in. In some places they might have minimums. Think about how many dogs you want and know that dogs do a lot of wear and tear on land.
15. 2 at a minimum for most breeds, but there's no rule for all dogs
16. If all breeders are equal, go for the one close to you. It makes it easier to get a hands-on mentor. Importing is expensive and risky because puppies don't always turn out.
17. You meet dogs of lots of different lines and take notes.
18. The breed recommended tests on the OFA page.
19. I think there is a GSD specific one, but the all breed temperament test is pretty fast and straightforward.
20. More friends are always better. You will become friends with people in the business naturally through exposure.
21. Not yet, but it can always happen.
22. If you have a lot of money and a good contract you could try to sue them depending on the problem, but basically you can't do much when the dog leaves your house.
23. Look at the price of dogs of your breed in the region.
24. 8 weeks is usually standard for GSD I think, but this varies by breed.
25. Yes you can have other dog breeds. I don't because every spot taken by another breed is a spot a Saluki can't have in my home. Time/resource limits.