Just because a food is expensive and popular doesn't mean it's better!

[sharrylee]

For anyone that isn't aware, ingredients on dog food are listed from highest contents of ingredient to lowest, so the first ingredient is the highest content and so on.

Royal Canin Large Breed Puppy $123.99cdn for a 35lb bag

Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Wheat, Wheat Gluten, Chicken Fat, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Natural Flavours, Brewers Rice Flour, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Monocalcium Phosphate, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Vegetable Oil, Fish Oil, Salt, Psyllium Seed Husk, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Hydrolyzed Yeast (Source of Betaglucans), Yucca Schidigera Extract, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Vitamins [DL-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid], Choline Chloride, Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Copper Proteinate], Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Marigold Extract (Tagetes Erecta L.), L-Lysine, Carotene, Chondroitin Sulfate, Rosemary Extract, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid.

Purina Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy $86.99cdn for a 34lb bag

Chicken, Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Corn, Poultry By-Product Meal (Source of Glucosamine), Whole Grain Wheat, Beef Fat Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Pea Fiber, Dried Egg Product, Fish Meal (Source of Glucosamine), Natural Flavor, Fish Oil, Soybean Oil, Mono and Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Citrate, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Choline Chloride, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin (Vitamin B-3), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B-5), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Biotin (Vitamin B-7)], Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Garlic Oil

Hills Science Diet Large Breed Puppy $96.99cdn for a 30lb bag

Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Whole Grain Oats, Whole Grain Sorghum, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Fat, Whole Grain Corn, Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Dried Beet Pulp, Pork Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, Iodized Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Choline Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, Oat Fiber, L-Carnitine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene, Apples, Broccoli, Carrots, Cranberries, Green Peas.

IN COMPARISON, HERE ARE "LOWER END" DOG FOODS YOU CAN BUY AT A GROCERY STORE FOR HALF THE PRICE.

Kirkland Signature Puppy $36.99cdn for a 20lb bag

Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, egg product,
chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp, potatoes, fish meal, flaxseed,
natural flavour, dried yeast, salmon oil (a source of DHA), millet, potassium chloride, salt,
choline chloride, carrots, peas, dried kelp, apples, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley
flake, dried chicory root, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Bacillus
subtilis fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried
Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium animalis fermentation
product, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous
sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese
proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium
pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6),
vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Iams Large Breed Puppy $39.97cdn for a 30.6lb bag

Chicken, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Natural Flavor, Fish Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Brewers Yeast, Dried Egg Product, Carrot, Potassium Chloride, Caramel Color, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide) Choline Chloride, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), L-Lysine, Fructooligosaccharides, Calcium Carbonate, Mixed Tocopherols (Preservative), Rosemary Extract

Purina One Smartblend Large Breed Puppy $44.97cdn for a 30.8lb bag

Chicken, Rice Flours, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product (Source of Glucosamine), Whole Grain Wheat, Whole Grain Corn, Beef Fat Naturally Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Pea Fibre, Glycerin, Dried Egg Product, Fish Oil (Source of DHA), Liver Flavour, Mono and Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Caramel Colour, Dried Carrots, Dried Peas, Potassium Chloride, VItamins [Vitamine E Supplement, Niacin (Vitamin B-#), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B-5), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Biotin (Vitamin B-7)], Minerals [Zinc Sulphate, Ferrous Sulphate, Manganese Sulphate, Copper Sulphate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Potassium Citrate, Choline Chloride, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Sulfur. D-4179.

THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN EXTREMELY HIGH END AND HIGH QUALITY DOG FOOD.
Edit: I am not suggesting personally that I find these high quality, I'm stating these are top tier brands that charge a lot for the same ingredients as grocery store brands.

Acana/Orijen Large Breed Puppy $79.99/$99.00cdn similar ingredient list, for a 25lb bag

Fresh Chicken (22%), Chicken Meal (21%), Whole Red Lentils, Whole Green Peas, Fresh Chicken Giblets (Liver, Heart) (6%), Herring Meal (4%), Eggs (4%), Raw Flounder (4%), Fish Oil (4%), Whole Chickpeas, Pea Fibre, Pea Starch, Turkey Meal (2.5%), Whole Green Lentils, Whole Yellow Peas, Chicken Fat (2%), Raw Turkey Livers (0.5%), Salt, Dried Kelp, Fresh Whole Apples, Fresh Whole Butternut Squash, Fresh Whole Carrots, Fresh Whole Pears, Fresh Whole Pumpkin, Fresh Whole Zucchini, Fresh Kale, Fresh Spinach, Fresh Turnip Greens, Fresh Beet Greens, Fresh Whole Blueberries, Fresh Whole Cranberries, Fresh Whole Saskatoon Berries, Burdock Root, Lavender, Marshmallow Root, Milk Thistle, Rosehips, Turmeric. ADDITIVES (Per Kg): Technological Additives: Tocopherol Extract From Vegetable Oils: 121mg, Citric Acid: 40mg. Sensory Additives: Rosemary Extract: 80mg. Nutritional Additives: 3a890 Choline Chloride (Choline): 700 Mg, 3b606 (Zinc: 112.5 Mg), 3b406 (Copper: 11mg), 3a821 Vitamin B1: 25mg, 3a841 Vitamin B5: 8 Mg, 3a831 Vitamin B6: 7.5mg, 3a700 Vitamin E: 60 IU. Zootechnical Additives: 4b1707 Enterococcus Faecium NCIMB 10415 2.2x10[sup]6[/sup] CFU.

Blue Buffalo Life Protection Large Breed Puppy $66.99cdn for a 26lb bag

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Barley, Pea Protein, Peas, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Menhaden Fish Meal (Source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Flaxseed (Source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Natural Flavour, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Egg Product, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fish Oil (Source of Ara-arachidonic Acid and Dha-docosahexaenoic Acid), Salt, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Choline Chloride, Potatoes, Dried Chicory Root, Potassium Chloride, Pea Fibre, Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, Dl-methionine, Calcium Carbonate, Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Garlic, L-carnitine, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Sulfate, Vegetable Juice for Colour, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Blueberries, Cranberries, Barley Grass, Parsley, Turmeric, Dried Kelp, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Niacin (Vitamin B3), Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), L-lysine, Copper Sulfate, Biotin (Vitamin B7), Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Sulfate, Taurine, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Dried Yeast, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Sodium Selenite, Oil of Rosemary.

 

[frenchfry578]

@sharrylee Checking the ingredient list is not a good way to determine if a food is good or not.

22% of fresh chicken might look good until you realize fresh means before dehydration and chicken is like 80% water, so that 22% that was “first ingredient” before cooking it actually becomes a much lower % once the kibble is cooked, probably even lower than most other brands.

A lot of people say “byproducts are bad” but then see liver and heart and say “wow such a nice source of protein” without realizing that liver and heart ARE BYPRODUCTS. Everything that is not strictly meat is a byproduct, the fact that some brands use the name of the byproduct instead of saying byproducts is just a marketing practice to trick you.

Then the grain. There is NO scientific evidence that grain free is better (except for dogs who are allergic to it, obviously). Actually science has linked grain free diets to heart disease. Even if there are more factors at play and we can’t guarantee that all grain free diets will cause heart disease why feed it if it has no benefit at all? Why get rid of corn, which is a great source of fatty acid even better than fish oil? Why get rid of whole grains which are a great source of fiber and carbohydrates and are highly digestible?

All of those boutique brands have endless lists of ingredients that are so minimal they make no difference. Look at the Acana composition you shared: The last 22 ingredients (TWENTY TWO) amount to less than 0.5% all of them together. Do you really think it makes a difference? Do you really think that 0.5% of a bunch of fruits make an impact on your dog’s diet? All of those ingredients are there just to look good, to trick owners into thinking “oh yeah this has a lot of cool and healthy ingredients” when in reality the amount of spinach your dog is getting (and the potential benefit of it) is virtually none.

When talking about different brands made by the same company like the two by Purina they usually use the best meat (aka the best and more digestible protein source) in the expensive brand and the rest in cheaper brands, same with the rest of the ingredients that will be better/more digestible/have a different manufacturing process in the more expensive kind. It’s not just the ingredient, actually the most important part is how you cook it, what process the ingredients go through to make them easier to digest/assimilate or enhance their nutritional value.

So. Yeah. You have no idea what’s in your dog’s kibble by looking at the bag. No one does but the manufacturer. Trust your vet, not a weird internet post by a rando.

 

[joshhatescheese]

@frenchfry578

So. Yeah. You have no idea what’s in your dog’s kibble by looking at the bag. No one does but the manufacturer.

I personally find this disturbing. Awhile back I wanted to see what the deal with raw feeding was. I got into understanding the nutrient breakdowns and chemical analysis of different proteins and animal parts via food databases. Now my dogs eat a mix of kibble and balanced raw, but I was curious to know what was in the kibble they are eating (down to vitamins, amino acids, and minerals) so I could add it into the spreadsheet and get a better picture of their nutritional intake.

I could not find any chemical analyses of the big kibble brands, which I understand is for good reason since who wants to reveal their brand formula.

But...doesn't that say something odd about the whole industry? That we're entitled to know the breakdown of the food we eat but not what we're told to feed our pets on a daily basis?

 

[sharrylee]

@frenchfry578 $124 for Royal canin and the highest content ingredient is Corn. Corn is not easily digestible, neither is rice, which is why it's cooked and ground into meal or flour to become easily digestible.

Corn should never be the 1st ingredient in a dogs food. Unsurprisingly most of royal canins formulas are similar, and they are vet recommended.

Peas and corn are carbohydrates and are not a reasonable energy source for dogs, since they are high on the glycemic index. Though healthy in smaller amounts, as dogs need 10% fruits and vegetables in their diet, having 20% corn doesn't make sense.

Why spend $124 on a vet recommended bag of corn when I can go to Walmart and get a better quality food for less then $50.

Ridiculous

 

[mikemu777]

@sharrylee Why? Because ALL DOGS ARE DIFFERENT. I'm glad using a cheaper food has worked out for your dog. For many, very specific foods are necessary for dogs wellbeing. Do I want to be feeding my dog one of the more expensive foods on the market? Not necessarily. Is it WSAVA approved and the only food that makes her not have chronic diarrhea, yes. Do what's best for your dog, listen to the professionals you trust, and stop caring so much what other people do when it isn't your money they're spending.

 

[sharrylee]

@mikemu777 The WSAVA is literally funded and supported by Purina, Royal Canin, and Hills. That's like trusting your dentist if they were funded by Nestle, or your doctor if big pharma paid their salary.

No thanks.

 

[mikemu777]

@sharrylee You've got some issues. Conspiracy theories are not facts. Truly hope your dog is okay (if you even have one, could just be spouting nonesense here for fun).

Therapy is helpful.

Edit: Also way to ignore the entire rest of my comment when I talk about the benefits of certain foods to dogs and only acknowledge the part where you can make some weird comment that fits your agenda lol.

 

[sharrylee]

@mikemu777 https://wsava.org/about/industry-partners/

Yeah, okay

 

[christophe]

@sharrylee People don't understand the budgets of governing agencies are dwarfed by those of big corporations...and the ramifications

 

[eront]

@christophe WSAVA got only a small amount of money from those groups and they are much larger than just making guidelines for food companies to create food.

That being said, nothing stops the other bodies such as Acana and other large corporations who make dog food (including pre-packaged raw) from doing the same. These companies are multinational.

Besides, which of the guidelines should be something other than required by the FDA to put food on the market in your opinion?

 

[joshhatescheese]

@sharrylee I have had a vet recommend RC on my husky's first consult & jabs. We came back for extra consults because he kept having the runs and then she told me RC can be hard to digest so prescribed him Hill's Science. So I totally get where you are coming from in terms of kibble market being a bit disconcerting.

 

[sharrylee]

@joshhatescheese You should really do your research on Hills science diet, there are several lawsuits and thousands of people with horror stories when vets recommended they start a specific formula. It's disturbing.

 

[eront]

@sharrylee You can start a lawsuit over anything.

 

[sharrylee]

@eront https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...hills-pet-food-12-5m-class-action-settlement/

I'd sue to if a company who was so invested in my dogs health, killed my dog.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/science_diet.html

Super popular.

 

[eront]

@sharrylee Yep, and that was resolved. It's something that shouldn't have happened.

Blue Buffalo has lawsuits, Champion Pet food has lawsuits. Once they pinpoint the exact cause of dietary DCM, you'll have lawsuits in a lot of areas seeing they've known about it for several years now and have done nothing.

Those who harm dogs should be accountable. But this has nothing to do with the ingredients marketing above in your post.

 

[sharrylee]

@eront Except Hills and Royal canin charge double or triple what a grocery store does for the same ingredients and they can't be bothered to actually test the food they are making to make sure its safe?

Hills profits in 2016-2017 was $1 Billion, yet they couldn't afford proper testing?

Royal Canins profits are $2 Billion per year, yet corn is the first ingredient on several of their $124 a bag dog food and they too couldn't be bothered to be testing dog food that was leaving their facility, or the products coming in to be put in the dog food.

Do these sound like companies that give a shit about anyones pets?

 

[eront]

@sharrylee Can you give a peer-reviewed source on corn being a probem?

You pay more for all finished products. It's how life is. You're going to pay about the same no matter what you feed if you're doing so in a nutritionally balanced manner. All companies, from the mom and pop shop to the corporate overlords, are profit motivated.

Do note: Formulation of home made food must go through a veterinary nutritionist. Recipes on the internet and in books are almost all nutritionally incomplete.

 

[sharrylee]

@frenchfry578 A by product is different then just meal. Example, chicken by product is the bones, organs, eggs, feet skulls etc, ground together. Chicken meal is the skin, meat and some bone. Quite obviously they would contain different percentages of protein, fat, and vitamins.

Grain free has only been deemed potentially dangerous to large breed dogs, not small breed, and my point was pointing out the pricing and quality of ingredients, not grain free diets.

And the point was that the ingredients are ridiculously similar, yet people pay a premium for one over another, even though the rendering plant providing by product and meal to Royal Canin and Hills, is providing the same product to Purina and Iams.

There is no difference in the list of ingredients, and simply googling science diet which is recommended by vets I can see multiple lawsuits, 2.6 star reviews, and thousands of 1 star reviews and read horror stories on why researching your own pets nutrition is extremely important.

 

[blessedbrian1989]

@sharrylee By products include mostly organ meat and can include feet, but not bones. The meal part only means dehydrated. The ingredients list is not a great guide, as it's the overall nutrition that matters. Brands like Royal Canine and Hill's are constantly doing research to ensure their foods have the best nutrition

 

[sharrylee]

@blessedbrian1989 By products are any portion of animal product not for human consumption.
Animal by-products are commonly defined as parts of a slaughtered animal that are not directly consumed by humans. This includes fat, bones, and gelatin. The vast majority of this material is 'rendered' or processed to produce a ground meal which is used in the formulation of animal feed to improve protein levels.

Except Hills had a recall related to killing peoples dogs with vitamin D toxicity because they weren't doing the testing required to provide good nutrition.

There are no tests on food being produced to make sure the nutrition is actually what they formulated it as. That's the issue.

And yes, ingredients matter, as corn is not easily digestible and is a carb, so high amounts of corn is absolutely pointless. Corn meal is easily digestible but can cause diabetes and obesity in high amounts, it shouldn't be eaten by any animal every day.